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Monday, February 16, 2026

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12:50:25enoqregarding value classes: they are copied when returned from a method, correct?
12:50:49enoqor is there some kind of optimization that uses pointers once it goes beyond a certain size?
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13:00:45dreamrealvalue classes in what context?
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13:01:12dreamrealThis got brought up on reddit recently, is why I ask, where a professor apparently is arguing the wrong thing
13:01:35enoqah, not referencing reddit
13:01:45dreamrealthat's fine, the question remains
13:01:55dreamrealI was explaining why I was asking
13:02:08enoqcorrect me if I'm wrong, but my impression is that value classes are allocated entirely on the stack
13:02:35enoqso if I create a big one holding a lot of ints and what not, it's going to perform a lot of copies
13:02:40dreamrealagain, what do you mean by "value class"
13:02:46dreamreala record, an immutable?
13:02:47enoqproject valhalla
13:02:55dreamrealokay, that's what I was looking for
13:03:01dreamrealI do not know your answer
13:04:10enoqmaybe memcopy is so fast when your memory is nicely laid out that it doesn't matter unless you hit a really big chunk
13:04:39dreamrealmy guess is that a bag of ints is a bad candidate for a value class, but like I said, I do not know
13:05:13dreamreal~pbv
13:05:13javabotIn Java, all parameters are passed by value. For a simple explanation see here https://bit.ly/2B1KVuo [cheeser's blog] or a more technical explanation see https://bit.ly/2VaGXGR.
13:05:15nevetjavabot mentioned urls: https://bit.ly/2B1KVuo ("Java References for Newcomers — antwerkz") and https://bit.ly/2VaGXGR ("Java: What to Know About Passing by Value")
13:06:46enoqpointers are copied I guess since they're cheap and primitives are also copied
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13:07:23dreamrealenoq: the pbv thing was for me, I was curious what the bot had on it
13:07:40dreamrealwasn't trying to inform you :) I figured you knew already
13:07:55enoqah, thanks :)
13:09:17dreamrealin the reddit thing, a professor is confusing copies of references with "pass by reference," which is unfortunate for a professor
13:10:00enoqto be fair there are a lot of different ways to pass stuff
13:10:13dreamrealOf course
13:10:41dreamrealbut java's is well-known and has been consistent for literal decades - it wouldn't have occurred to me to wonder if valhalla changes that, but what do I know
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13:25:37Parare: pass by value, for the _logical_ behavior better description would be pass value by reference, but in that specific corner of the CS domain that doesn't make sense... :)
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13:26:46ParaI've long ago settled on it works logically and without suprise.
13:34:03dreamrealI'd say it was pass references by value, you dumbie!
13:38:45Para...yes
13:39:01ParaAlso could I be a dumble instead, it's delicious (it's a chocolate+taffy candy)
13:39:38ParaOr Dumle? Damn, maybe I _am_ a dumbie.
13:39:46dreamrealno, but dumble amps are *fantastic*
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14:49:09dreamreal~karma eclipse
14:49:09javaboteclipse has a karma level of -694, dreamreal
14:49:11dreamreal~karma idea
14:49:12javabotidea has a karma level of 179, dreamreal
14:49:16dreamrealChronos: ^^
14:50:12Chronosdreamreal: hahahaha good point :)
14:50:26Chronos(Even if I don't necessarily agree with those results)
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15:07:58dreamrealI think it's a little unfair to eclipse, which is why nevet's karma works like it does :D
15:08:14dreamrealin nevet, for eclipse to KEEP that karma it would have to be CONSTANTLY maintained at that level
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16:38:14* CodeGeek!~codegeek@about/java/CodeGeek changed the topic to: Welcome! || Read Channel Rules at https://javachannel.org/ before participating. || Paste limit is two lines; ~pastebin lists options. || No applets, please. || Minecraft, Android, and Javascript all have their own channel. || You are being logged.
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17:31:54gas51627hi all. Could you please advise a java playground that can run java code and also allows sharing the link to the runnable code?
17:35:18gas51627the standard java playground does not allow sharing the links unfortunately: https://dev.java/playground/
17:35:18javabotgas51627's title: "The Java Playground - Dev.java"
17:36:34dreamreal~ideone
17:36:34javabotdreamreal, ideone is http://ideone.com/
17:36:39gas51627thank you
17:36:43dreamreal~glot.io
17:36:43javabotdreamreal, what does that even *mean*?
17:36:46dreamrealhmm, hold on
17:37:23dreamreal~glot.io is <reply>https://glot.io/new/java is an online Java pastebin that can run code similar to ~ideone.
17:37:23javabotOK, dreamreal.
17:37:56dreamreal~ideone is <reply>https://ideone.com is a simple online java platform that can run code. See also ~glot.io
17:37:57javabotI already have a factoid named 'ideone', dreamreal
17:38:02dreamreal~no, ideone is <reply>https://ideone.com is a simple online java platform that can run code. See also ~glot.io
17:38:02javabotOK, dreamreal.
17:41:25dreamrealman, now I'm all disappointed we don't already have a URL to look at.
17:50:12gas51627https://glot.io/snippets/hfuzhn4xs2
17:50:12nevetgas51627 mentioned url: https://glot.io/snippets/hfuzhn4xs2 ("Untitled")
17:50:17gas51627please
17:53:22gas51627Ok, maybe this is more clear: https://glot.io/snippets/hfuzmmmdtb
17:53:22nevetgas51627 mentioned url: https://glot.io/snippets/hfuzmmmdtb ("Untitled")
17:53:53dreamrealokay, you prrrrrrrobaby want to actually present a problem statement
17:54:02gas51627i am bragging
17:54:05dreamrealbecause otherwise we're looking at going "oh look it's code"
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17:54:15dreamrealokay, oh look it's code :D
17:54:52gas51627it statically checks that Duck sort of implements my interface.
17:55:10gas51627With this code I can define an interface and than check that Duck sort of implements it.
17:55:22gas51627If Duck does not implement it, then the compilation fails.
17:55:33gas51627(sort of implements it)
17:55:53dreamrealOkay. How is this USEFUL, though? I mean, I guess you're forcing the compiler to validate it... but you're binding a lot of bits of the compilation unit together, which doesn't scale well
17:55:54gas51627it's for hibernate stuff and it wants methods with the same name on the interface as on the class.
17:56:07dreamrealnot to harsh on anyone's mellow
17:57:13gas51627"you're binding a lot of bits of the compilation unit together" what do you mean?
17:58:14dreamrealwell, you have the interface, which has to know about the entity, and the interface then can say "I'm going to require the open extension fulfill this requirement"
17:59:21gas51627what is the "open extension" in this case?
17:59:35gas51627the class right?
17:59:38gas51627the Duck
18:00:07dreamrealyeah
18:00:21dreamrealit has to be extensible, which fits, honestly, given the scope you're talking about
18:01:33gas51627yes indeed the Duck must be open
18:02:21gas51627that is, it must be extendable, otherwise I couldn't create that "check extension".
18:02:28dreamrealyes
18:02:34dreamrealand given HIBERNATE, that makes sense
18:03:29gas51627indeed, the extended class the Duck must be extendable. Extension can be open or closed.
18:04:19gas51627basically, the thing is, that in spring -jpa, I can provide projection interface to project my entity, with some of the properties from the entity. With this, I can declare the projection and then statically check that MyProjection will work with this entity.
18:08:33gas51627so I just wanted to send my colleague a link to that snippet, but couldn't find how to send it. So thanks a lot.
18:10:06dreamrealOf course, and good work!
18:26:55gas51627thank you
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19:20:12NeXeNwhat's up
19:22:35ParaCPU prices, GPU prices, RAM prices, and how HDD prices.
19:22:44Para*now
19:22:54ParaI also somehow broke my page up.
19:26:40yamadajava dies
19:26:44yamadaram prices :D
19:27:18ParaAverage Electron app takes more RAM than an average Java webapp these days.
19:27:30yamadaelectron rescues java
19:27:50ParaSome sort of JavaFX Electron shim thingamajig would actually probably be pretty nice.
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19:38:19dreamrealhmm, i haven't needed to buy ram recently at all
19:38:45dreamrealwhy would you need java/electron though?
19:38:53ParaWell, it's now ridiculously expensive so better hope such need doesn't arise.
19:39:00ParaAI ate all the hardware.
19:39:08* dreamreal is on mac so there
19:39:26dreamrealall the ram that went away is on others' hardware
19:41:39ParaThat's the grand plan.
19:41:48ParaDon't sell hardware to people anymore, make them rent everything.
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20:13:57NeXeNPara: javafx has a chromium based webview, and there's also jcef
20:14:11NeXeNwait, is it chromium or webkit based ? i forget now
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20:15:17NeXeNi would like to build jcef apps, use java as the surrounding buttons and inside the webview, so i can built FE apps normally. dukescript lets you go between. i've done it before but for a simple uh like in-house app that was to track something silly but pertinent
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20:17:15NeXeNAOT can get your footprint smaller, but javafx unfortunately uses a lot of reflection, though it will work with gluon and stuff, it's a pita to manually do
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21:20:13* CodeGeek!~codegeek@about/java/CodeGeek changed the topic to: Welcome! || Read Channel Rules at https://javachannel.org/ before participating. || Paste limit is two lines; ~pastebin lists options. || No applets, please. || Minecraft, Android, and Javascript all have their own channel. || You are being logged.
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