Community

Chat Logs

Wednesday, February 18, 2026

00:25:28* sunyour joined #java
00:36:47* punk_ joined #java
00:50:49* kusanagi joined #java
01:00:32cheeserthat syntax (! vs. ?) is actually just like how kotlin views things: ! is a platform type assumed to be non-null and ? is the nullable type.
01:00:48cheeserexcept in kotlin you can't explicitly declare a type with !
01:03:19sbalmoswe should just write in Rust and have an LLVM-JVM bytecode transpiler. :P
01:03:33* cheeser eyes dmlloyd
01:20:09* meyou joined #java
01:26:39* bemoty joined #java
01:33:31* rorx joined #java
02:19:32* bemoty joined #java
02:21:48* bemoty joined #java
02:23:18* polarian joined #java
02:23:33* bemoty joined #java
02:26:14* bemoty joined #java
02:52:07* fstd joined #java
03:13:57* avu joined #java
03:29:14* GnarlyBob joined #java
04:18:34* xerox joined #java
04:22:34* agnivn joined #java
05:07:48* ForeverDreaming joined #java
05:34:38* deepy joined #java
05:35:45* Aedil joined #java
05:37:47* rvalue joined #java
05:45:14* Bombe joined #java
05:58:47* IceMicha| joined #java
06:00:49* stewi joined #java
06:01:23* sbalmos joined #java
06:11:09* zoraj joined #java
06:38:20* yamada joined #java
06:42:00* IceMicha- joined #java
06:52:35* metalmaniac joined #java
07:08:49* zoraj joined #java
07:27:59* zoraj_ joined #java
07:44:27* LaSombra joined #java
07:46:08* jwisbell35 joined #java
07:52:11* johni__ joined #java
07:54:19* Aison joined #java
08:11:01* MinusSeven_ joined #java
08:37:13Swayzeeverybody was ircfu fightin
08:37:34Swayzethem kicks were fast as lightnin :p
08:52:34* rvalue- joined #java
08:59:16* zoraj joined #java
09:01:38* jwisbell35 joined #java
09:11:40* domicron joined #java
09:19:09* johni__ joined #java
09:23:31* Pixi joined #java
09:26:42* MikeBux joined #java
09:32:37* Afroboy joined #java
10:02:09* johni__ joined #java
10:08:07* johni__ joined #java
10:19:23nimajesbalmos: hm, iirc graalvm has a llvm bytecode interpreter
10:32:49* zoraj joined #java
10:38:41* zoraj_ joined #java
10:40:32* simon816 joined #java
10:40:40* magla joined #java
11:11:16* gurrkin joined #java
11:20:38* vobar joined #java
11:23:05* rvalue- joined #java
11:23:08* jwisbell35 joined #java
11:23:56* devmick joined #java
11:41:44* Flow joined #java
11:44:10* BarnabasDK joined #java
11:50:26* lord4163 joined #java
11:50:39* johni__ joined #java
11:57:30* Aedil joined #java
12:23:04* ChaiTRex joined #java
12:23:38* jwisbell35 joined #java
12:25:40* jbosmans joined #java
12:26:08* mixfix41 joined #java
12:44:09* johni__ joined #java
12:53:07* sa02irc joined #java
13:02:15* GreenResponse joined #java
13:08:19* sa02irc joined #java
13:22:28dmlloydwell, my linux system motherboard is finally dead at the age of ~14 years... time to spec out a new system... with as little RAM as possible...
13:22:47cheesertesting/developing for constrained systems?
13:23:21dmlloydno, I just can't afford RAM right now, it's price jumped by like 900% or something
13:23:25dmlloydits*
13:23:33cheeserah! right. i'd forgotten about that.
13:23:57dmlloydI wanted to put 64GB in my next system, but maybe I'll buy a second house instead ...
13:23:59* ChaiTRex joined #java
13:26:52LaSombraYou can sell some 64GB from one of your current systems as a down payment
13:28:27deebojust buy the same motherboard on ebay or something :)
13:35:04sbalmostake a quick vacation to a beach, scoop up some sand, melt it with a kitchen torch you use for creme brulee, profit
13:35:28dreamrealdmlloyd: mac :D
13:35:55dmlloydI use a mac as my daily, but I need linux for testing
13:36:08cheeserpffft. that's what docker is for.
13:36:33dmlloydI wonder if I should invest in one of those little arm64 cluster things instead
13:36:51dmlloydyeah I mean there's docker but that's not super convenient if you just want to have a shell going
13:36:53dreamrealraspi5?
13:37:48dmlloydlike one of these: https://turingpi.com/product/turing-pi-2-5/
13:37:48nevetdmlloyd mentioned url: https://turingpi.com/product/turing-pi-2-5/ ("Get Turing Pi 2, mini ITX cluster board")
13:37:48javabotdmlloyd's title: "Get Turing Pi 2, mini ITX cluster board"
13:37:51sbalmosqemu running a vm!
13:38:16dmlloydI guess I should have some kind of intel thing running though for testing
13:39:04dmlloydthe latest intel CPUs are particularly interesting for testing thread scheduling because they're weird: typically ~8 fast cores and ~8 efficiency cores with different behaviors
13:44:11* skum joined #java
13:44:47dreamrealApple Silicon's like that too
13:45:12dmlloydthe difference is that there's no userspace API to map threads to cores on macos
13:45:33dmlloydyou're pretty much at the mercy of the OS
13:47:00* skinkitten joined #java
13:50:26dreamrealheh, it's the thing king, except for CPU :D
14:12:37* B_fd joined #java
15:02:39* nevet joined #java
15:02:39* CodeGeek!~codegeek@about/java/CodeGeek changed the topic to: Welcome! || Read Channel Rules at https://javachannel.org/ before participating. || Paste limit is two lines; ~pastebin lists options. || No applets, please. || Minecraft, Android, and Javascript all have their own channel. || You are being logged.
15:05:37dreamrealTesting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=um-gUlLU9WE
15:05:37nevetdreamreal mentioned url: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=um-gUlLU9WE ("INSANE ROBERT FRIPP GUITAR SOLO (Sweet Child O' Mine)")
15:06:19dreamrealcheeser: youtube title extraction may need to use the oembed stuff to work. I fixed nevet's youtube parsing like that; youtube's a pain. og:title works *but* they do data center sanitization.
15:10:04* tronexte joined #java
15:13:39* emaczen joined #java
15:14:18dreamrealThat sanitization was driving me nuts: I couldn't get it to fail locally, but remotely? couldn't see og:title at all.
16:22:51cheeserstupid google
16:30:13dreamrealoembed works though
16:33:44* sponkz joined #java
17:44:27* stfstfm joined #java
18:01:16* A_Dragon joined #java
18:07:16* JonathanD joined #java
18:19:22dreamrealhttps://better-spring-initializr.com/
18:21:37ParaCan't click away mvnw though.
18:21:48ParaBut definitely better as a whole.
18:21:49Tenchiindeed
18:22:37sonOfRaWhy exactly would you want to explicitly not have mvnw, mvnw and gradlew are a pretty strict upgrade over... not those
18:22:56dreamrealthat was my thought, too, sonOfRa
18:23:02dreamrealalthough I use mvnd a lot too
18:23:38sonOfRaPersonally, I mostly use gradle, you may ask "what's wrong with that guy", but consider it's 2026, and we're both hanging out on IRC.
18:24:01dreamrealI have lost trust in gradle after having, like, actually used it
18:24:40dreamrealI get the attraction in having to literally maintain a build that breaks on minor updates to the build system, it's fun and is a great way to explain project delays, but personally, I still prefer to avoid
18:25:00sonOfRaVery happy with it actually, having a few hundred lines of customization scripts in our custom distribution with all our shared settings, and now every project builds the same
18:25:19ParaWell, it's two more files, one which will never be relevant to me (mvnw.cmd) and another which I just don't see any benefit from. Maybe I've missed the conditions/experience where it becomes excellent, but until such happens, I'd rather not have things "just in case"
18:25:30dreamrealI've had to go "Oh yeah, sorry, that worked in 8.4.1, they broke it in 8.4.2, and then broke it again in 8.4.3" too many times to enjoy gradle voluntarily
18:26:19dreamrealPara: maven wrapper is less necessary than gradle wrapper, certainly
18:26:39dreamrealusing gradle without the wrapper is like going to prague to experience the opposite gender without, like, protection
18:26:53sonOfRaSo far we've only had breakages on major updates, and then all of those could have been fixed by reading and fixing "this build is using features that will be gone in a future version of gradle" messages that we saw for months before upgrading :D
18:26:55dreamrealnothing against any prague people here, I'm thinking of the memes
18:27:33ParaGradle should probably distribute itself in a container only.
18:27:42dreamrealsonOfRa: that's good but I've had other experiences :D
18:28:07ParaMy only Maven breakage over the years has been with the version which introduced colored output.
18:28:07dreamrealplus every encounter I've had with the gradle community has been net neutral
18:28:33ParaWhich was more of a "oh i was dum and there's a note about this in the release notes" thing than anything else.
18:28:42dreamrealI WANT to like gradle... and I know (and work with) someone who can do amazing things with it
18:29:31dreamrealPara: s/"[^and]//
18:29:43dreamrealwe just assume you're dumb, mate, no need to point it out :D
18:30:48ParaWhat's the big Why for Gradle's existence, anyway?
18:31:01ParaWhat sparked its creation?
18:32:11Bombe“How can I make everybody’s life as painful as possible?”
18:32:21dreamrealno
18:32:30dreamrealgradle is MOSTLY convention over configuration
18:32:41dreamrealmaven is convention; ant is configuration
18:32:56dreamrealgradle was trying to build a middle ground because maven made some things really hard to do well
18:33:01* stfstfm joined #java
18:33:31dreamrealthe problem is, those things ARE hard to do, and gradle can't magically make those things trivial, although it can help
18:36:00* TomyWork joined #java
18:36:37dreamrealI have a feeling if you're looking for THE prime motivator it's probably how people refused to understand XML *and* Maven sort of said "we're going polyglot... some day"
18:37:25ParaAnd now that Maven is polyglot, no one cares.
18:37:57dreamrealWell, all the maven users know XML and are used to it, and copypasta rules and gets the el jobbo el done-o.
18:55:27dreamrealnevet's website is written but untested, I don't want to unleash it until I get the certs all worked out, and I need the http setup to be very stable right now
18:57:11* TomyWork joined #java
19:04:38Paraslap acme on it?
19:04:48Parathrough caddy if you're feeling fancy
19:05:28dreamrealcertbot works, it's just that the sites use proxies so the certbot location stuff isn't doing what's expected
19:05:47dreamrealI'll get it, I just need to wait until the stability isn't quite as mandatory
19:06:52dreamrealthen I get to debug the sites themselves, but eh, that'll be easier
19:07:53dreamrealI'd just do it with placeholders right now but the stability thing: traffic's up, so restarting the server is meaningful
19:24:34* metalmaniac joined #java
19:45:51* svm_invictvs joined #java
20:01:57dreamreal~caddy
20:02:06dreamrealagh, no javabot
20:02:18dreamrealI don't know if it has references to caddy anyway
20:02:31dreamrealI was gonna copy 'em over to nevet if they existed
20:02:43DoofusCanadensisyou did good work, javabot. rest well. I'll most likely kill you in the morning.
20:03:02vitaliyhe will reincarnate in Kotlin
20:03:16dreamrealvitaliy: javabot's already kotlin
20:03:24vitaliyuh oh... Rust then
20:03:32dreamrealhttps://github.com/evanchooly/javabot
20:04:50vitaliybeautiful
20:05:36dreamrealnevet's kotlin too but shares no code with javabot at all, 100% rewritten; any similarities are incidental or because the author of some of the operations is the same doofus
20:05:43vitaliydreamreal: how do you feel about Kotlin?
20:05:48dreamrealIt's great
20:06:21dreamrealGiven the choice to write kotlin or java, I'll choose kotlin 12 times out of 7 unless there's a specific compelling reason not to, like "management demands this be written in java"
20:06:36vitaliyyou don't miss the good old Bean.Singleton.Fascade.Generator.FactoryEntity.Configurator(); ?
20:06:40dreamrealor "your team doesn't know kotlin and this is code they need to maintain"
20:06:51dreamrealno, why would I care about that even in Java?
20:06:55vitaliyheh
20:07:17DoofusCanadensismy former boss had no trouble with that latter statement, dreamreal
20:07:21dreamrealI get the humor in the references - yes, it can get absurd. And abused.
20:07:45dreamrealBut the question isn't, or shouldn't be, "is this the most elegantest code ever", it should be "does this code work"
20:07:47DoofusCanadensishe was all in on: here, everybody should learn kotlin
20:08:14dreamrealkotlin does have a tendency to push one towards some pretty efficient constructs
20:13:43* yano joined #java
20:18:55* yodawg joined #java
20:23:51* deavmi joined #java
20:26:02* yodawg joined #java
20:33:36* j4n joined #java
20:57:03* cheeser joined #java
20:57:51* javabot joined #java
20:58:07dreamreal~caddy
20:58:17dreamrealyeesh, fine
20:58:22javabotdreamreal, what does that even *mean*?
20:59:20cheeserdunno why my vps rebooted. i'll have to file a support ticket later.
21:00:34dreamrealcheeser: how do you feel about factoids being skimmed from javabot for nevet?
21:02:22dreamrealnot all of them, not wholesale, of course
21:03:40DoofusCanadensisslurrrrrrp
21:04:52dreamrealI can't use a lot of them directly anyway, I'd have to translate them to nevet's internal format, but that'd be relatively easy to parse. nevet breaks information down into bits: there's a text entry, a url, maven coordinates, "see also," tags, a few other things like that
21:05:17dreamrealthe main things javabot has that nevet would use would be "see also" sections, the text, and the urls
21:06:42dreamrealbut I don't think they're consistently placed in the javabot factoids, so I'd have to do some extraction. But in ANY event I wouldn't want to do it without cheeser's say-so.
21:12:12* Square2 joined #java
21:13:41cheeserthey're all my exclusive IP!
21:13:56cheeserno, i don't care. i can do a collection dump later if it'd help.
21:14:31dreamrealI might even still have access to it, unless you've revoked it. I can get it. I just wasn't going to hork it all up without you being aware and approving of it.
21:26:36* Ragnor joined #java
21:29:13* jink joined #java
21:53:28dreamrealyou know, it's funny: the jwz factoids are some of the funniest stuff ##java has to offer. Outside of every reference to Quest, I guess.
22:14:19* Fiji joined #java
22:25:51* Enissay joined #java
22:37:11* digicyc joined #java
23:30:37* rubin55 joined #java
23:34:02* domicron joined #java
23:47:21* Exa joined #java