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Wednesday, February 18, 2026
- cheeserthat syntax (! vs. ?) is actually just like how kotlin views things: ! is a platform type assumed to be non-null and ? is the nullable type.
- cheeserexcept in kotlin you can't explicitly declare a type with !
- sbalmoswe should just write in Rust and have an LLVM-JVM bytecode transpiler. :P
- * cheeser eyes dmlloyd
- Swayzeeverybody was ircfu fightin
- Swayzethem kicks were fast as lightnin :p
- nimajesbalmos: hm, iirc graalvm has a llvm bytecode interpreter
- dmlloydwell, my linux system motherboard is finally dead at the age of ~14 years... time to spec out a new system... with as little RAM as possible...
- cheesertesting/developing for constrained systems?
- dmlloydno, I just can't afford RAM right now, it's price jumped by like 900% or something
- dmlloydits*
- cheeserah! right. i'd forgotten about that.
- dmlloydI wanted to put 64GB in my next system, but maybe I'll buy a second house instead ...
- LaSombraYou can sell some 64GB from one of your current systems as a down payment
- deebojust buy the same motherboard on ebay or something :)
- sbalmostake a quick vacation to a beach, scoop up some sand, melt it with a kitchen torch you use for creme brulee, profit
- dreamrealdmlloyd: mac :D
- dmlloydI use a mac as my daily, but I need linux for testing
- cheeserpffft. that's what docker is for.
- dmlloydI wonder if I should invest in one of those little arm64 cluster things instead
- dmlloydyeah I mean there's docker but that's not super convenient if you just want to have a shell going
- dreamrealraspi5?
- dmlloydlike one of these: https://turingpi.com/product/turing-pi-2-5/
- nevetdmlloyd mentioned url: https://turingpi.com/product/turing-pi-2-5/ ("Get Turing Pi 2, mini ITX cluster board")
- javabotdmlloyd's title: "Get Turing Pi 2, mini ITX cluster board"
- sbalmosqemu running a vm!
- dmlloydI guess I should have some kind of intel thing running though for testing
- dmlloydthe latest intel CPUs are particularly interesting for testing thread scheduling because they're weird: typically ~8 fast cores and ~8 efficiency cores with different behaviors
- dreamrealApple Silicon's like that too
- dmlloydthe difference is that there's no userspace API to map threads to cores on macos
- dmlloydyou're pretty much at the mercy of the OS
- dreamrealheh, it's the thing king, except for CPU :D
- dreamrealTesting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=um-gUlLU9WE
- nevetdreamreal mentioned url: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=um-gUlLU9WE ("INSANE ROBERT FRIPP GUITAR SOLO (Sweet Child O' Mine)")
- dreamrealcheeser: youtube title extraction may need to use the oembed stuff to work. I fixed nevet's youtube parsing like that; youtube's a pain. og:title works *but* they do data center sanitization.
- dreamrealThat sanitization was driving me nuts: I couldn't get it to fail locally, but remotely? couldn't see og:title at all.
- cheeserstupid google
- dreamrealoembed works though
- dreamrealhttps://better-spring-initializr.com/
- ParaCan't click away mvnw though.
- ParaBut definitely better as a whole.
- Tenchiindeed
- sonOfRaWhy exactly would you want to explicitly not have mvnw, mvnw and gradlew are a pretty strict upgrade over... not those
- dreamrealthat was my thought, too, sonOfRa
- dreamrealalthough I use mvnd a lot too
- sonOfRaPersonally, I mostly use gradle, you may ask "what's wrong with that guy", but consider it's 2026, and we're both hanging out on IRC.
- dreamrealI have lost trust in gradle after having, like, actually used it
- dreamrealI get the attraction in having to literally maintain a build that breaks on minor updates to the build system, it's fun and is a great way to explain project delays, but personally, I still prefer to avoid
- sonOfRaVery happy with it actually, having a few hundred lines of customization scripts in our custom distribution with all our shared settings, and now every project builds the same
- ParaWell, it's two more files, one which will never be relevant to me (mvnw.cmd) and another which I just don't see any benefit from. Maybe I've missed the conditions/experience where it becomes excellent, but until such happens, I'd rather not have things "just in case"
- dreamrealI've had to go "Oh yeah, sorry, that worked in 8.4.1, they broke it in 8.4.2, and then broke it again in 8.4.3" too many times to enjoy gradle voluntarily
- dreamrealPara: maven wrapper is less necessary than gradle wrapper, certainly
- dreamrealusing gradle without the wrapper is like going to prague to experience the opposite gender without, like, protection
- sonOfRaSo far we've only had breakages on major updates, and then all of those could have been fixed by reading and fixing "this build is using features that will be gone in a future version of gradle" messages that we saw for months before upgrading :D
- dreamrealnothing against any prague people here, I'm thinking of the memes
- ParaGradle should probably distribute itself in a container only.
- dreamrealsonOfRa: that's good but I've had other experiences :D
- ParaMy only Maven breakage over the years has been with the version which introduced colored output.
- dreamrealplus every encounter I've had with the gradle community has been net neutral
- ParaWhich was more of a "oh i was dum and there's a note about this in the release notes" thing than anything else.
- dreamrealI WANT to like gradle... and I know (and work with) someone who can do amazing things with it
- dreamrealPara: s/"[^and]//
- dreamrealwe just assume you're dumb, mate, no need to point it out :D
- ParaWhat's the big Why for Gradle's existence, anyway?
- ParaWhat sparked its creation?
- Bombe“How can I make everybody’s life as painful as possible?”
- dreamrealno
- dreamrealgradle is MOSTLY convention over configuration
- dreamrealmaven is convention; ant is configuration
- dreamrealgradle was trying to build a middle ground because maven made some things really hard to do well
- dreamrealthe problem is, those things ARE hard to do, and gradle can't magically make those things trivial, although it can help
- dreamrealI have a feeling if you're looking for THE prime motivator it's probably how people refused to understand XML *and* Maven sort of said "we're going polyglot... some day"
- ParaAnd now that Maven is polyglot, no one cares.
- dreamrealWell, all the maven users know XML and are used to it, and copypasta rules and gets the el jobbo el done-o.
- dreamrealnevet's website is written but untested, I don't want to unleash it until I get the certs all worked out, and I need the http setup to be very stable right now
- Paraslap acme on it?
- Parathrough caddy if you're feeling fancy
- dreamrealcertbot works, it's just that the sites use proxies so the certbot location stuff isn't doing what's expected
- dreamrealI'll get it, I just need to wait until the stability isn't quite as mandatory
- dreamrealthen I get to debug the sites themselves, but eh, that'll be easier
- dreamrealI'd just do it with placeholders right now but the stability thing: traffic's up, so restarting the server is meaningful
- dreamreal~caddy
- dreamrealagh, no javabot
- dreamrealI don't know if it has references to caddy anyway
- dreamrealI was gonna copy 'em over to nevet if they existed
- DoofusCanadensisyou did good work, javabot. rest well. I'll most likely kill you in the morning.
- vitaliyhe will reincarnate in Kotlin
- dreamrealvitaliy: javabot's already kotlin
- vitaliyuh oh... Rust then
- dreamrealhttps://github.com/evanchooly/javabot
- vitaliybeautiful
- dreamrealnevet's kotlin too but shares no code with javabot at all, 100% rewritten; any similarities are incidental or because the author of some of the operations is the same doofus
- vitaliydreamreal: how do you feel about Kotlin?
- dreamrealIt's great
- dreamrealGiven the choice to write kotlin or java, I'll choose kotlin 12 times out of 7 unless there's a specific compelling reason not to, like "management demands this be written in java"
- vitaliyyou don't miss the good old Bean.Singleton.Fascade.Generator.FactoryEntity.Configurator(); ?
- dreamrealor "your team doesn't know kotlin and this is code they need to maintain"
- dreamrealno, why would I care about that even in Java?
- vitaliyheh
- DoofusCanadensismy former boss had no trouble with that latter statement, dreamreal
- dreamrealI get the humor in the references - yes, it can get absurd. And abused.
- dreamrealBut the question isn't, or shouldn't be, "is this the most elegantest code ever", it should be "does this code work"
- DoofusCanadensishe was all in on: here, everybody should learn kotlin
- dreamrealkotlin does have a tendency to push one towards some pretty efficient constructs
- dreamreal~caddy
- dreamrealyeesh, fine
- javabotdreamreal, what does that even *mean*?
- cheeserdunno why my vps rebooted. i'll have to file a support ticket later.
- dreamrealcheeser: how do you feel about factoids being skimmed from javabot for nevet?
- dreamrealnot all of them, not wholesale, of course
- DoofusCanadensisslurrrrrrp
- dreamrealI can't use a lot of them directly anyway, I'd have to translate them to nevet's internal format, but that'd be relatively easy to parse. nevet breaks information down into bits: there's a text entry, a url, maven coordinates, "see also," tags, a few other things like that
- dreamrealthe main things javabot has that nevet would use would be "see also" sections, the text, and the urls
- dreamrealbut I don't think they're consistently placed in the javabot factoids, so I'd have to do some extraction. But in ANY event I wouldn't want to do it without cheeser's say-so.
- cheeserthey're all my exclusive IP!
- cheeserno, i don't care. i can do a collection dump later if it'd help.
- dreamrealI might even still have access to it, unless you've revoked it. I can get it. I just wasn't going to hork it all up without you being aware and approving of it.
- dreamrealyou know, it's funny: the jwz factoids are some of the funniest stuff ##java has to offer. Outside of every reference to Quest, I guess.