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Saturday, March 7, 2026

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  19. pengu1nxI never really did any big project, specifically not a game. Assuming I want to do a sandbox type game, what kind of software architecture would be suitable? I just don't want to mess up and make expanding difficult later
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  33. dreamrealoi
  34. Parapengu1nx: The actual answer is probably https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entity_component_system
  35. nevetEntity component system - Wikipedia
  36. Parasee also https://github.com/SanderMertens/ecs-faq
  37. javabotPara's title: "GitHub - SanderMertens/ecs-faq: Frequently asked questions about Entity Component Systems 路 GitHub"
  38. kcomhnallohhhh, well my bad. I don't know anything about game dev other than it's really hard
  39. dreamrealI don't know if it's hard
  40. kcomhnallhm horizontal composition... interesting. I'll keep that in mind but will continue my versical layers for the top-down data flow
  41. dreamrealit depends on the game
  42. kcomhnalldreamreal: of course you wouldn't. I had a brief brush against it and was relieved when that mess was over. shaders, path tracing, texture mapping oh my.
  43. dreamrealSure. But that's a particular definition of "game." Nethack has no shaders, no texture mapping. Path tracing is very simple on a cartesian plane... and can be played on anything with enough storage for the game to run. Is it not a game?
  44. dreamrealRogue could be played on a commodore 64, a tandy color computer. Is it not a game?
  45. dreamrealLode Runner has no shaders, not even path tracing. Again, 8-bit. Game?
  46. * kcomhnall reminds dreamreal they're talking to a newb
  47. dreamrealWell, stop being a newb. Games don't have to look like one thing only.
  48. pengu1nxThanks, I'll check them all out later and decide on one
  49. dreamrealHell, minecraft is incredibly successful, and notch had no idea what he was doing: again, barely better than cartesian path tracing.
  50. dreamrealShaders there were *imported* from opengl because he could render the world as cubes. (Hytale, btw, is kinda cool as a sort of 'minecraft done by people who were inspired but have a clue what they're doing.)
  51. dreamrealDIABLO is not especially far removed from nethack in terms of gameplay. The looks of a game are not the game, although the industry seems to think it does: if Tomb Raider had a negative aspect, it's that Croft's chest size accident influenced people into thinking *that* is what mattered.
  52. dreamreal(a programmer accidentally fat-fingered a number and she went from a B to, uh, whatever she is.)
  53. kcomhnallokay, I've heard of Tomb Raider and Minecraft.
  54. * kcomhnall summons ender_dragon
  55. dreamrealthe dawncraft mod for minecraft is, BTW, utterly bonkers mad. So are a lot of the "hard mods." Thankfully, there're other mods to help keep up. (My son has a pretty popular gun mod, it's fascinating to see how minecraft works now.)
  56. ParaThe story how Diablo became a realtime game was kinda funny. It was originally turn based with set time increments (similar to how D&D turn is 6 seconds game time), and within the team some were pondering out loud if it could be done. The lead was adamantly against it but that didn't kill the discussion, so eventually one weekend at home he made one turn last like 50 milliseconds and turned on
  57. Paraautomatic turns and...the game became realtime, and that was it.
  58. dreamrealPara: haha, yeah
  59. dreamrealwas supposed to be nethack with expiring turns, and turned into... diablo
  60. ParaWhich of course bears the question that how did they manage to create an essentially realtime game but turn based :D
  61. dreamrealmore like they took a turn-based game and gave the player only so long to move
  62. dreamrealdiablo feels very like an isometric nethack to me
  63. ParaReminds me of how John McCarthy apparently laughed at one of his grad students when one of them showed them this magical "eval" function for executing his LISP S-expressions. As in "that's cute but no one's going to need that!"
  64. dreamrealheh
  65. dreamrealPara: did you notice I put clojure into nevet? :D
  66. ParaDiablo 2 apparently has an unfinished 3D mode in the game engine. It's got at least some screen distortion things going on.
  67. Paradreamreal: nevet doesn't come with a manual
  68. dreamrealIt actually does!
  69. dreamrealbut there's a "be [name]" operation in there that uses clojure
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  71. dreamrealhttps://github.com/jottinger/bytecode.news/blob/main/operation-markov/src/main/clojure/com/enigmastation/streampack/markov/chain.clj
  72. javabotdreamreal's title: "bytecode.news/operation-markov/src/main/clojure/com/enigmastation/streampack/markov/chain.clj at main 路 jottinger/bytecode.news 路 GitHub"
  73. dreamrealhttps://github.com/jottinger/bytecode.news/blob/main/operation-markov/src/main/kotlin/com/enigmastation/streampack/markov/operation/BeOperation.kt
  74. ParaAh, that's how it works.
  75. ParaNow all nevet needs is a cure for ephemeral dementia.
  76. * dreamreal adds a factoid saying "stop being you, $1"
  77. dreamrealYou can still add specific "be person" factoids - the priority system means that it'll try to match other things first. But it will emulate anyone it's seen... usually with, uh, "odd results."
  78. dreamreal* channeling dreamreal: you can't run the official mongo images on some of the similar actions are tied to the "i hope they don't die" statement
  79. dreamrealThat's.... remarkably lucid, actually
  80. Para* channeling dreamreal: thought they were clearly deficient human beings
  81. Chronosdreamreal: If your son is into Minecraft and modding, you might want to introduce him to Luanti (formerly Minetest). He could dive into the world of Luanti mods, all written in Lua, and customize them. Maybe even create his own mods.
  82. dreamrealYep, it goes back and builds a series of token streams for 1000 messages, and since it's in a lot of channels where I am, it's got a good corpus for me
  83. dreamrealChronos: he actually doesn't like programming. Lua would drive him nuts.
  84. ParaCreate is a pretty awesome Minecraft mod.
  85. ParaIt's even got trains.
  86. Chronosdreamreal: Ah, ok.
  87. dreamrealYeah, he's helped with some of those - he has trains, ships, planes himself, and has a pretty realistic set of guns
  88. dreamrealapparently his gun mod is one of the good ones
  89. ParaThere was also some really in-depth and detailed cooking mod which looks interesting to me.
  90. ParaI think there's even a specific submod just for creating custom sandwiches.
  91. dreamrealyeah, there's some crazy stuff in there
  92. dreamrealThere's even a mod that converts villagers to orthodox jews: my son and I HAD to try that one. Removed, because it's very accurate and MY GOD the orthodox are annoying :D
  93. Para"this sucks 5/5"
  94. dreamrealpoe's law was very strong in that one: you're going "... is the author trying to make them look bad, or ... is that just how the orthodox are?" (and in my experience, it's pretty much how the orthodox are: I never come away with a lot of interaction with the orthodox without going "well, glad THAT's over" and thinking to myself "shut up, I'm just as Jewish as you are")
  95. ParaOf course knowing what the modding was like a decade ago it's great that the high quality and variety mods are what people know and want to use these days.
  96. ParaGone are days of "I imported this free Porche OBJ and replaced the horse with it" kind of mods. Or girlfriend villager mods.
  97. dreamrealHytale is *amazing* though
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  99. Para(I'm sure there's still some terrible actively developed girlfriend mods out there)
  100. * dreamreal shudders. GIRLFRIEND villager mods?
  101. ParaWhy of course, with true Tomb Raider 1 style pointy tits and all.
  102. * dreamreal fears and shifts safari to private mode.
  103. ParaThere was actually a fight at one point if that's fine or if they should be blocks because, you know, Minecraft.
  104. dreamrealOM this is so much better than I feared
  105. ParaWell, ten years ago they weren't.
  106. dreamrealI mean, it's also pretty much exactly what I feared, in that you kinda wonder if the authors actually know what females look like, but it'd better than skyrim's modding community, where women would be unable to stand upright based on any sort of real physics
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  121. kcomhnallnot that I have a solution for this but, why is the first paragraph of this guide ( https://docs.oracle.com/en/java/javase/21/security/java-cryptography-architecture-jca-reference-guide.html#GUID-2BCFDD85-D533-4E6C-8CE9-29990DEB0190 ) also repeated in the "Introduction to Java Cryptography Architecture" section? Is this just how we are expected to write documentation?
  122. nevetSecurity Developer鈥檚 Guide
  123. kcomhnalllike, I'm getting what I need to know from the doc but that really sticks out and I was a bit annoyed.
  124. dreamrealkcomhnall: this may surprise you but humans write docs
  125. dreamrealand this may ALSO surprise you but humans are not perfect, nor is everything tuned for you
  126. dreamrealas far as "why" - you'd need to ask the author, depending on who it is, and good luck finding that out. Chances are the actual writer had no idea and was handed a lot of absolute rubbish from someone who had insight but didn't know how to present it.
  127. kcomhnalldreamreal: no surprises. I actually think I've used that same writing style in an article I published.
  128. ParaProbably idea was "this needs a summary/excerpt", then that paragraph looked great as is, copied it there and made a mental note of fixing it later, and then lost the note.
  129. dreamrealTechnical writing is a specific skill... and one that's really poorly done. I saw an axis about documentation that I thought was really useful, I need to remember how to describe it...
  130. dreamreallike, there're quadrants: users vs authors, and those who want to know vs those who need to get stuff done
  131. dreamrealand docs really should be written from that perspective: "this is an article written for those who want to use this, not understand it" or "this is an article written for those who need to implement..."
  132. dreamrealdiataxis!
  133. dreamrealdiataxis=<reply>Diataxis is a way of thinking about and doing documentation. It's a quadrant of tutorials/explanation, how-to vs reference. What to write, how, and how to organize it. Should guide all documentation. Doesn't.
  134. nevetok, dreamreal: updated diataxis.
  135. dreamrealdiataxis.tag=documentation
  136. nevetok, dreamreal: updated diataxis.
  137. dreamrealdiataxis.url=https://diataxis.fr/
  138. nevetok, dreamreal: updated diataxis.
  139. dreamrealthere!
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  141. kcomhnall~diataxis
  142. javabotkcomhnall, what does that even *mean*?
  143. kcomhnalloh...thought dreamreal added a factoid
  144. dreamrealI did, just not in javabot
  145. dreamrealnevet has it. javabot and nevet reproduce factoids differently.
  146. dreamreal /m nevet diataxis
  147. dreamrealAnd bytecode.news just got an article on diataxis out of it... drafted on IRC. :D
  148. dreamreallike, LITERALLY on irc: "!article Diataxis" followed by "!content foo bar baz" to add context, then "!done" to submit it :D
  149. dreamrealI would have done it here but nevet's muted in #java
  150. dreamrealI'm ridiculously happy about that working. That's a proof of concept I've been mulling for quite literally decades.
  151. dreamrealkcomhnall: ++
  152. nevetkcomhnall now has karma of 1.
  153. kcomhnalldreamreal: thanks...what'd I do though?
  154. * kcomhnall battery low - checking out!
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