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Friday, March 13, 2026

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02:03:32dreamrealhttps://bytecode.news/posts/2026/03/json-toon-yaml-and-more-considering-data-serialization-formats
02:11:14Tenchidreamreal: so did you upgrade to v3 or not ?
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02:30:59dreamrealyes
02:34:11dreamrealI did not migrate away from JSON anywhere
02:34:22dreamrealbut jackson 3 was implemented, everywhere except in one place
02:34:29dreamrealbut that's a separate article
02:57:44cheeseryaml is the best data transport format.
03:17:57DoofusCanadensislook, you
03:21:02cheeserif you're looking to fight me, i'll add you to the list. i think i have this right. it's a yaml doc so ...
03:26:07cheeserhey, copilot, i'm getting an NPE because in the code you generated, you're not passing a parameter so the default value of null gets used. fix it, please. "oh, i see what's wrong. I need to pass 'context = null' as an argument so the default value of null doesn't get applied to that parameter."
03:35:55DoofusCanadensisgeez
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06:18:41pengu1nx1Memory pooling is used for storing many Objects of the same type with short lifespans, right? I don't quite understand the reasoning, does the garbage collector immediately remove free space? Or why is memory allocation so bad?
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06:28:24deebonote sure what you mean with "memory pooling", generic object pooling can be used for situations where the objects are reusable/borrowable and take a "long" time to initialize, like http or database connections
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06:29:41pengu1nx1I meant that, my bad
06:31:20deebooutside of the well known uses, probably not worth it, atleast not without validating a bottleneck that could be helped with a pool
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08:06:42dmlloydhttps://openjdk.org/jeps/8357464 looks nice
08:06:42javabotdmlloyd's title: "JEP draft: Enhanced Local Variable Declarations (Preview)"
08:06:43nevetJEP draft: Enhanced Local Variable Declarations (Preview)
08:11:32ParaOh I'm loving that.
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08:13:36deebohmm, is there something blocking typescript type destructuring like {location: {int x, int y}, double radius} = myCircle;, that Circle(Point(...), ...) looks wordy
08:14:06ParaThat's more of a TypeScript's quirk though, as its emulating types on top of duck-typed objects.
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08:15:18ParaIf that lands proper, IDEA's going to have some kind of smart refactoring thing available for picking values anyway so I'm not that worried :)
08:17:38deeboyeah then you try to indent it and it swaps half your file with ai slop
08:18:08ParaThere probably is one step more in squeezing that, but it would look a bit noisy IMHO. Like, either use vars instead of object names. Java already kinda has parsed meaning for ((()()) so it wouldn't be that easy to handle in backwards compatible manner, but as it's a draft, maybe they'll come up with something extra.
08:18:29ParaLike for example if it's a sealed class, the matching is exhaustiva -> allow some shorthand.
08:19:44deebogreat feature though, i'll just end up hating the verboseness and lisp level of () in deep nesting
08:26:32ParaUse proper lisps and it'll be ridinculously simpler :)
08:26:45ParaDestructuring in Clojure is very dense and feature rich.
08:27:07Para(that family also includes Fennel and jank)
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09:34:34kcomhnallheh, so that jep preview is something that's clearly already existed in other languages? Rust.. Python.. Typscript as you guys already mentioned and others.
09:34:39kcomhnallyeah..."nice"
09:39:06kcomhnallor am I missing something?
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09:45:07* kcomhnall suddenly feels like writing in C#
09:52:26dmlloydyeah the language team is very careful about adding stuff
09:52:53dmlloydother languages are a bit more aggressive about it
09:58:24kcomhnallby the language team I assume you're talking about project amber?
10:01:16ParaJava the language, JVM the runtime/platform. They're two very distinct things, but obviously interlinked.
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10:01:34ParaJVM is bleeding edge, Java is conservative. It has always been like this on purpose.
10:02:53dmlloydamber is only one of several projects related to enhancing the language
10:03:50kcomhnallbleeding edge? huh.. interesting take on a mature runtime env
10:05:34kcomhnallthe maturity is the whole reason I enjoy using Java... hardened and w.o.r.a are important for my projects.
10:05:41kcomhnall"JVM"
10:07:23MikeBuxi still wan to learn a compiled language like go, rust or c/c++ though,
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10:12:00dmlloydthat's also a poor distinction, as java is compiled at run time, and can optionally be pre compiled to a native executable by projects such as graalvm
10:14:49ParaMaturity and bleeding edge are not exclusive either; that's why e.g. that draft is available through feature flag as preview.
10:15:18MikeBuxyes but the usual way is to compile the bytecode at runtime, which means, every time you want to run a program, it needs to be compiled
10:17:56kcomhnall~karma Para
10:17:56javabotpara has a karma level of 24, kcomhnall
10:17:59kcomhnallhmm
10:20:09dreamrealjep 8357464
10:20:10nevetjep 8357464: draft: Enhanced Local Variable Declarations (Preview) (https://openjdk.org/jeps/8357464)
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10:43:08dreamrealpengu1nx1: that's a very complex subject; java's memory model is largely pluggable and therefore there's not a great answer to it that is actually correct for all cases
10:43:10dmlloydthe upside of jit compilation is that you get compiled cods tailored for your cpu's features every time, which isn't always possible or practical with precompilation
10:43:48Paralook also: linux kernels
10:44:00dreamrealyeah, sometimes there's a question of whether you need it or not: tradeoffs everywhere
10:44:04dmlloydcode, not cods 🐟
10:44:16dreamrealI don't mind go but I've failed to be impressed with it
10:44:16Paravibe cod
10:44:27dreamrealI do mind rust but OTOH it HAS impressed me
10:45:08dreamrealhttps://bytecode.news/posts/2026/03/enhanced-local-variable-declarations-in-java
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12:03:17nimajedmlloyd: well for that you could also change the system to compile to some IR, distribute that and on install optimise it for the target cpu (afaik android does that)
12:03:45dreamrealnimaje: it's doable, yes
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12:04:08dmlloydwell, java bytecode _is_ an IR
12:04:11dreamrealI have a project that runs on an embedded device that's, well, Intel, sort of... we COULD theoretically AOT it externally but that's a lot
12:05:01dreamreal(It is intel but we don't know the exact cpu profile)
12:05:13ParaIA-32
12:05:17nimajea jit can additionally optimise on concrete runtime values, especially if it knows that it will be loaded once and then stay the same
12:05:28dreamrealyes, we're aware :D
12:05:49ParaThat sounds like AI to me!
12:06:07dreamrealyou know, as time goes by I hate the "AI" label more and more
12:06:25dreamrealI mean, AI is... a whole series of algorithms, an LLM is just one variant and an expensive one
12:06:37nimajeabout everything is AI, be more specific
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12:09:49cheeserdmlloyd: so that JEP is destructuring, basically
12:14:29dmlloydyeah basically, at least for the local variable case
12:15:35dmlloydit will be very helpful for cases where you have to interrupt/split an otherwise trivial conditional to introduce a local variable
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12:16:31dreamrealHow expensive is that, though
12:16:50dreamreal(interrupting/splitting an otherwise trivial conditional...)
12:16:51dmlloydthe only cost would be at compile time; the bytecode is the same
12:17:04dmlloydoh, the cost there is reduced readability
12:17:28dmlloydin other words, the language enhancement will enable better readability
12:19:22dreamreal... will it? I mean, it might - and destructuring CAN be useful in some languages, but the places where it'd really matter would be really limited. Simple expressions might benefit but I really do wonder how many people are desperate for deconstructed declarations like that.
12:20:14dreamrealI've been using Java since 1998, and I've yet go to "dang, I sure wish java let me do deconstructed declarations," not that it might be the best thing java's seen since sliced bread or whatever
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12:45:11ChronosWhat's an example of a deconstructed declaration?
12:47:05dreamrealPredicate(subject, predicate, value) = p.rdf; // do something with subject
12:48:23Chronosdreamreal: Thanks.
12:50:32* Chronos is mildly skeptical of the value of that particular syntactic sugar.
12:52:13ChronosIt looks like Java 21 has something called "Record Patterns" which has some kind of deconstruction.
12:52:19ChronosIf I'm understanding this correctly...
12:52:47ChronosFor example: Object obj = new Person("Alice", 30); if (obj instanceof Person(String name, int age)) { ... }
12:53:02dreamrealyes
12:53:11dreamrealbut that's a different level of deconstruction
12:53:50ChronosOh, it looks like JavaScript has had this feature since ES6
12:53:54Chronosdreamreal: Ah.
12:54:01Bombedreamreal, eh, I feel the same about pattern matching.
12:54:32BombeIt always feels like I’ve failed to properly utilize OOP when I suddenly need to know the type of an object.
12:59:39ChronosOK, I can see how this syntactic sugar could be nice :)
13:02:16cheeseri've wanted destructuring plenty of times in java but kotlin kinda ruined me in that regard.
13:02:42cheeserpattern based destructuring will be fine, i guess, but not as convenient as kotlin's syntax.
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14:22:08dreamrealthat's kind of the problem: kotlin has it, other languages have it, does java NEED it?
14:24:36dreamrealI mean, it's possible; it might be a simple extension of the switch/case stuff
14:30:34sbalmosdepends on whether you see continued viability of the ecosystem as Java-centric, or JVM-centric
14:34:39dreamrealThat's a good point - I guess I see it as jvm-centric so it's kinda meh for me to worry about destructured stuff
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