Community

Chat Logs

Monday, March 23, 2026

00:43:12* sponkz joined #java
01:36:47* pengu1nx1 joined #java
01:42:29* Betal joined #java
02:13:36* Markow joined #java
02:29:26* Rainier joined #java
03:01:43* Ragnor joined #java
03:21:08* zorone joined #java
03:44:55* raj joined #java
04:05:24* NeXeN joined #java
05:21:35* NeXeN joined #java
05:40:50* NeXeN joined #java
06:37:43* MikeBux joined #java
06:42:33* Aedil joined #java
07:16:23* sponkz joined #java
07:47:22* jreicher joined #java
08:12:26* stewi joined #java
08:20:41* MikeBux joined #java
08:24:10* NeXeN joined #java
08:29:22* Afroboy joined #java
08:37:41* vitaliy joined #java
08:39:10* sponkz joined #java
08:49:16* Aedil joined #java
08:52:33* yoochan joined #java
09:02:25* kathadris joined #java
09:17:47* Jabo joined #java
09:30:15* NeXeN joined #java
09:44:05* NeXeN joined #java
09:51:05* NeXeN joined #java
10:20:24* Alastair joined #java
10:27:46* jonp` joined #java
10:30:17* Deneb joined #java
10:34:46* ash_2026 joined #java
10:46:08* zorone_ joined #java
10:52:14* BytesAndCoffee joined #java
10:52:39* rvalue joined #java
10:52:39* tronexte_ joined #java
10:52:39* Exa joined #java
10:52:39* Disconsented joined #java
10:52:39* Joel joined #java
10:53:11* tronexte joined #java
10:53:42* zorone_ joined #java
11:00:56* zorone_ joined #java
11:05:19* Afroboy joined #java
11:07:38* zorone_ joined #java
11:15:20* zorone_ joined #java
11:21:47* zorone_ joined #java
11:28:23* zorone_ joined #java
12:53:30* kcomhnall joined #java
12:57:06* jamezp joined #java
13:41:06* GreenResponse joined #java
14:14:27* nevet joined #java
14:14:27* CodeGeek!~codegeek@about/java/CodeGeek changed the topic to: Welcome! || Read Channel Rules at https://javachannel.org/ before participating. || Paste limit is two lines; ~pastebin lists options. || No applets, please. || Minecraft, Android, and Javascript all have their own channel. || You are being logged.
14:18:17* nevet joined #java
14:18:17* CodeGeek!~codegeek@about/java/CodeGeek changed the topic to: Welcome! || Read Channel Rules at https://javachannel.org/ before participating. || Paste limit is two lines; ~pastebin lists options. || No applets, please. || Minecraft, Android, and Javascript all have their own channel. || You are being logged.
15:03:55* CodeGeek!~codegeek@about/java/CodeGeek changed the topic to: Welcome! || Read Channel Rules at https://javachannel.org/ before participating. || Paste limit is two lines; ~pastebin lists options. || No applets, please. || Minecraft, Android, and Javascript all have their own channel. || You are being logged.
15:03:55* nevet joined #java
15:07:59dreamrealMaybe one more deployment for nevet - I'm setting up an MCP server :D
15:13:18* nevet joined #java
15:13:18* CodeGeek!~codegeek@about/java/CodeGeek changed the topic to: Welcome! || Read Channel Rules at https://javachannel.org/ before participating. || Paste limit is two lines; ~pastebin lists options. || No applets, please. || Minecraft, Android, and Javascript all have their own channel. || You are being logged.
15:23:12* ChaiTRex joined #java
15:23:53* ferdna joined #java
15:29:53dreamrealhttps://bytecode.news/posts/2026/03/bytecode-news-now-has-an-mcp-server
15:29:53javabotdreamreal's title: "ByteCode.news now has an MCP server | bytecode.news"
15:38:48* nevet joined #java
15:38:48* CodeGeek!~codegeek@about/java/CodeGeek changed the topic to: Welcome! || Read Channel Rules at https://javachannel.org/ before participating. || Paste limit is two lines; ~pastebin lists options. || No applets, please. || Minecraft, Android, and Javascript all have their own channel. || You are being logged.
15:39:35* jonp joined #java
15:45:41* MonsterAbyss joined #java
15:51:39* jonp` joined #java
16:04:36* MonsterAbyss joined #java
16:07:37* stfstfm joined #java
16:07:37* jonp joined #java
16:11:04* waz joined #java
16:12:45* magla joined #java
16:21:36* jonp joined #java
16:22:41* jonp` joined #java
16:27:00* jonp joined #java
16:31:30* polarian joined #java
16:58:59* MikeBux joined #java
17:03:31* CodeGeek!~codegeek@about/java/CodeGeek changed the topic to: Welcome! || Read Channel Rules at https://javachannel.org/ before participating. || Paste limit is two lines; ~pastebin lists options. || No applets, please. || Minecraft, Android, and Javascript all have their own channel. || You are being logged.
17:03:31* nevet joined #java
17:21:19* NeXeN joined #java
17:52:36* jonp joined #java
17:55:49* stfstfm_ joined #java
18:25:46* raj joined #java
18:28:36* stfstfm joined #java
18:31:19* waz_ joined #java
19:16:07* NeXeN joined #java
19:24:47* NeXeN joined #java
19:31:02* zorone_ joined #java
19:39:31jbosmansdreamreal, so given nevet is here, what does it do (here) exactly?
19:40:23jbosmanswell, "here" without parentheses i guess :)
19:42:33ParaIt is a learning computer.
19:43:24jbosmans:-D
19:43:47* zorone_ joined #java
19:44:06ParaIt kinda is, it's got per-user Markov chains for imitation.
19:44:50Paranevet | * channeling jbosmans: sun ceo but what's his name
19:44:52dreamrealIt's muted HERE because of javabot; two infobots in the same channel is just asking for noise.
19:45:25jbosmansfirst the bots get replaced, then ...
19:45:27ParaBack in...whenever people did run bot channels with the whole idea that they'd be allowed to chat together to see if something interesting would spawn from the noise.
19:45:29jbosmans:P
19:45:30dreamrealit has controls set so that it will never emit content in some environments (like this channel)
19:45:43jbosmansdreamreal, what does it ingest?
19:45:48ParaIf anything, those channels taught us that Markov chains do not Artificial Intelligence a make.
19:46:10jbosmansdreamreal, sorry, what does it ingest from here if anything?
19:46:17dreamrealprimarily logs and some factoid content, although the factoid trigger is different because the *syntax* is different; nevet's factoid model is a lot more indepth than javabot's.
19:46:21dreamrealkarma as well.
19:46:36ParaDoes the article poster actually post yet?
19:46:53dreamrealIt also gives me a chance to create content in the bot without having to change contexts.
19:46:58dreamrealPara: what do you mean?
19:47:15ParaOn a bit of a tangent, this is apparently still getting a few updates now and then https://kingjamesprogramming.tumblr.com/
19:47:16nevetKing James Programming
19:47:17dreamrealI've used !article in *this channel* to create content on bytecode.news, yes
19:47:34Paradreamreal: Just iterating in my head what commands were available.
19:47:41dreamrealhttps://bytecode.news/posts/2026/03/diataxis was written that way
19:47:41nevetDiataxis
19:47:41javabotdreamreal's title: "Diataxis | bytecode.news"
19:48:02dreamrealhttps://github.com/jottinger/bytecode.news <-- the actual repo
19:48:03javabotdreamreal's title: "GitHub - jottinger/bytecode.news: The nevet codebase, generally for bytecode.news · GitHub"
19:49:02dreamrealnevet is running the app module, so it's got everything enabled that it's in the codebase (you can disable features by ignoring their modules in the classpath)
19:49:25dreamrealI think the only thing that ISN'T supported that the repo has is OIDC, because I just haven't tested it
19:49:32ParaAh, the nifty self-registration which people still underuse IMO.
19:49:49dreamrealyeah, I don't store passwords if I can help it
19:49:49jbosmansdreamreal, i guess i want to understand what it's doing with things people post here?
19:49:55dreamrealjbosmans: very little
19:50:12dreamreallogging, more than anything else: it's not doing ingestion of anything more detailed than javabot is
19:50:27ParaThe Markov chain is probably the most involved thing, and it's a curiosity more than anything.
19:50:33dreamrealit's tracking karma from #java, I guess, but most other interactions are specific and via privmsg
19:50:42jbosmanslogging like, writing things to a file and that's it ?
19:50:42dreamrealeven markov is just ingesting from logs
19:50:47dreamrealdatabase, not file
19:50:49dreamrealbut yes
19:50:55jbosmansokay, cool
19:51:09dreamrealthose logs ARE publicly available, just like javabot's
19:51:44jbosmansright, yeah
19:52:24dreamrealI think it's better than javabot for most things (there's like ONE feature javabot has that nevet does not) but javabot's not something I'm trying to replace: I want to be ABLE to but I'm not seeking to replace it
19:52:33dreamreal(the feature: API search.)
19:52:52jbosmansdon't make us redundant eh
19:52:59jbosmans;-)
19:53:28dreamrealWell, if you know anything about markov chains, you'll know that's unlikely. The markov chain in nevet uses three-token sequences, so it's recognizable but not, like, sane :D
19:54:05dreamrealI may bring that up to four tokens, but that requires a lot of inputs. Maybe when nevet's been running a year.
19:54:23dreamreal(at four and five tokens, you're starting to see it just straight up quoting people.)
19:54:59ParaAnd it'll take time to get the chain to produce any meaningful variation anyway.
19:55:11ParaBut it's a kinda fun toy.
19:55:20dreamrealPara: well, it depends: the markov chain is *really* fast
19:55:34dreamreallike, retrieving the logs is the most expensive part of the whole thing
19:55:39dreamrealand that's around 4ms
19:56:06jbosmanshaving no memory i'm probabilistically (?) reducing you're making us redundant
19:56:14dreamrealit's a fun toy and it's related to the whole reason nevet exists
19:56:32jbosmansit's nice to have a dataset to do things with
19:57:04dreamreal(the first *real* iteration of nevet that ran on #java was actually not *connected* - it ran over #java logs and generated markov data from various users and ran sentiment analysis over it.)
19:57:07dreamrealSpeaking of...
19:57:48dreamreal15:57 <nevet> Sentiment for irc://libera/%23java: Sentiment +3/10 | Intensity low | Themes: bot features (nevet), markov chains, logging/data ingestion | Summary: Calm technical discussion about nevet bot capabilities; jbosmans curious about data handling, dreamreal explaining architecture—tone informally positive, collaborative
19:58:03jbosmansnice :-)
19:58:49dreamrealYou could theoretically set up a timer operations and have the bot monitor sentiment for various ingress channels
19:59:14dreamrealand go "hey op you might want to pay attention to channel #x, sentiment is at -7 thanks to user foobaricus"
19:59:26jbosmansyeah that would be bad
19:59:32dreamrealI dunno, -7
19:59:43dreamrealis pretty aggressive but it's not THAT hard to trip
19:59:44jbosmansyeah, exactly :-)
20:00:02jbosmanslet's reduce interaction to an integer?
20:00:08jbosmansbut i understand what you mean
20:00:20dreamrealnah, it's actually a floating point, you normally measure sentiment in -1/+1 terms
20:00:21jbosmansjust trying to prove a counterpoint i guess
20:00:32dreamrealbut you can hit -1 pretty easily, 1 is kinda tough
20:02:19jbosmansi'm wondering, what does that mean?
20:02:35* magla joined #java
20:02:37dreamrealwhat, sentiment scores?
20:02:40jbosmansyeah
20:02:53jbosmansmore like <dreamreal> but you can hit -1 pretty easily, 1 is kinda tough
20:03:13dreamrealOh, it's really easy to be "extremely negative" but being "extremely positive" is difficult
20:03:22GreenResponsefrom huffington post to full 4chan I guess
20:03:29Tenchiheh
20:03:31dreamreallike, issue a lot of death threats and be all shouty and you can get -1 fairly easily
20:03:49dreamrealbut be all shouty and *positive* and it ends up coming off as sarcasm and flattery
20:03:51* kcomhnall joined #java
20:04:01ParaThe sentiment measures are always funny.
20:04:52jbosmansyeah, it's interesting stuff to play around with for sure
20:05:21jbosmansbut given where we're at (& going i guess), i just think it matters, not to dramatize :-)
20:05:32dreamrealnevet uses an LLM to gauge sentiment: it's not doing heuristic. I wouldn't MIND doing heuristics for it but I was specifically trying to get an LLM bridge in place.
20:05:36ParaYears ago one place I worked at had autosentiment analysis for customer feedback and one message they got which had like three non-swearwords (agglunative languages are very flexible for verbally creative) had a sentiment of -0.68 on scale of -1 to 1. Which was the worst score ever received, so obviously it was printed and put on dev team's wall with the sentiment analysis.
20:05:57dreamrealPara: hahahahahahaha
20:06:04ParaWhich of course begs the question, if basically a collection of swearwords is just -0,68 then what can be worse than that.
20:06:33dreamrealcreative use, maybe
20:06:34jbosmansi guess it'd depend on the model
20:06:42dreamrealThat's part of why I didn't want heuristics
20:06:48Tenchibeyond that threshold is sarcasm and passive agressiveness
20:06:49ParaThis was over a decade ago, so who knows.
20:06:50jbosmansor heuristics
20:07:03ParaMaybe the analyzer had general issues with said agglunation and saw it just random nonsense :)
20:07:14Para+as
20:07:22dreamrealI have a summary generator in bytecode.news that does heuristics, it's... good but not anywhere near great, the LLM summaries are much gooder
20:07:57* zorone_ joined #java
20:07:59dreamrealBTW, I'm considering offering a reward for people to write for bytecode.news - I'm trying to get it to have enough critical mass to replace TSS
20:08:16dreamrealso far, I think *I* have written everything on it but it's meant to be open contributions
20:08:26* dreamreal waits for someone to say "oh really, how much"
20:09:00dreamrealand the answer is "not THAT much, my money tree ain't bore no fruit yet" but it'd be something and you'd have an actual editor help you
20:10:34dreamrealfor it to be in the TSS role it needs more voices and more people propagating the URL
20:18:24jbosmansTSS == Therapeutic Support Staff ? :)
20:18:48jbosmansi'm guessing not ^
20:19:05jbosmansalso wouldn't go reward for posting
20:19:34jbosmansends in clickbait, see (alas a large part of) #journalism
20:24:20kcomhnalldreamreal: interesting. I'll take a look. what's the tech stack and where is the source repo?
20:24:47* kcomhnall not concerned about a reward other than learning experience.
20:32:48dreamrealkcomhnall: https://github.com/jottinger/bytecode.news
20:32:49javabotdreamreal's title: "GitHub - jottinger/bytecode.news: The nevet codebase, generally for bytecode.news · GitHub"
20:32:54* mindCrime joined #java
20:32:55dreamrealTSS = theserverside.com
20:33:20dreamrealand if someone posted something I could use, I don't mind compensating them for it, you make the iron hot by striking it
20:36:45* polarian joined #java
20:40:28kcomhnalldreamreal: cool, I'm bookmarking the repo now. right now I'm trying to figure wth is going on with my own JWT_SECRET environment variable (Windows) and why it's not being picked up.
21:11:05* waz joined #java
21:15:19* baier joined #java
21:31:28jbosmansfinished moving away from thymeleaf layout dialect \o/
21:34:18jbosmansno more groovy = jar file 8mb smaller
21:34:25jbosmansnow i can install doom
22:03:03* baier joined #java
22:08:29* zorone joined #java
23:10:02* Jabo_ joined #java
23:26:19johnjayspeaking of bytecode. are there any good sites about internals and guts of the jvm?
23:35:45* domicron joined #java
23:36:13* ChaiTRex joined #java
23:54:20dreamrealYes, they're publicly available, the vm spec is useful
23:54:24dreamrealit's kinda deep though