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Wednesday, April 1, 2026

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03:42:23NeXeNreflection is so slow in static analysis
03:57:46jreicherHuh? Isn't that a contradiction?
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04:26:07NeXeNi mean with graal
04:26:21NeXeNif you don't pre-configure it you know
04:27:15NeXeNanyways i'm just complaining
04:28:26NeXeNso what's up, what are you working on, jreicher?
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04:44:30jreicherNothing in Java at the moment unfortunately. Been hit with a lot of new compliance rules for kubernetes deployments, so I'm grappling with helm charts and pipelines written by other people. :(
05:05:49NeXeNfun fun fun under the gun
05:35:41deeboi loathe helm charts, they're basically "%s %s %s %s %s %s %s".formatted(service,deployment,ingress,...) in yaml format, it's terrible imo :)
05:36:23deeboi always end up just writing out a simple multi document yaml file, no idea why kubectls kustomize didn't "take off", much easier to read and understand than helm
06:43:25jreicherI've never put together a deployment from scratch so I've never had the chance to step back and make this kind of choice myself. I always end up with what other people have chosen.
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08:11:02NeXeNjreicher: that is sometimes the truth
08:17:12nimajehm, "simple" and "yaml", seems like a contradiction
08:32:54NeXeNyaml is simple. simple is sometimes stupid
08:33:04NeXeNremember kiss, keep it simple or stupid
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09:26:30hwpplayer1What are the differences between 17 and 21 Java ?
09:26:39deeboabout 4
09:27:00hwpplayer1Any backward compatibilities ?
09:27:18deeboand 25 is current "lts", so moving to 21 is a weird sidestep
09:27:37hwpplayer1Okay thanks
09:28:24deeboplenty of feature lists on the interwebs (and youtube if you're into that), don't think backwards compatibility has ever been an issue really
09:28:52hwpplayer1I see
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09:36:42BombeWhen we recently switched from 11 to 21, we did have to fix a small number of source files.
09:39:23dreamrealhttps://bytecode.news/posts/2026/04/openjdk-says-structured-concurrency-now-writed-in-python
09:44:42hwpplayer1I gotta go thanks
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09:48:13Bombe“Writed?”
09:48:43BombeI mean, it would fit the topic… :D
09:52:21* dreamreal shrugs
09:52:40dreamrealRemember who the author is... single-layer jokes are a lot less funny than 12-layers. :D
09:53:29dreamrealI thought about having an AI literally write it, and I tried that, but it was ungood
09:59:28deeboemdash enthusiast
10:01:02ParaIs that a weekly or monthly publication?
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10:16:33dreamrealwhat, bytecode.news?
10:16:58dreamrealdeebo: damn it
10:17:37dreamrealdeebo: that would have been perfect, to have Hanz Franz have a comment in monotype, with em-dashes and a very neutral, formal tone, finalizing with "... did I do it right, Human?"
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13:14:12dreamrealBTW, the stuff that goes on bytecode.news is the stuff I'd like to have seen the java channel blog get, or theserverside.com back in the day: it's not purely java focused because pure java isn't that interesting, we live in a wider ecosystem, but it's got a core focus on the JVM
13:15:22dreamrealand if you want to contribute, well, *that's the point* - and it has an editorial oversight so you're not just posting stuff without trying to make it look good
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14:15:12mitch0dreamreal: nit on the fonts: it's kinda hard to read (at least on mobile)
14:18:01mitch0(probably it's just me getting old though)
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14:18:52dreamrealthe serifs are a problem? kinabalu says he's going to address the mobile rendering at some point
14:19:19dreamrealI didn't design the UI - the UI *I* put together is... uh... not exactly normal-human friendly
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14:20:50mitch0I bet it would suit me just fine :) (I mean, your UI version)
14:22:37dreamrealI doubt it, I don't really see information the same way others do
14:22:45dreamrealIf MY innate UI would suit you, that's concerning :D
14:23:16dreamrealI probably need to revise it, though: the nextjs UI has advanced some things that the original reference UI hasn't kept up with
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14:25:23dreamrealActually, that's an interesting tech problem: I need to have a way to capture the way the "real UI" works at the transport level so the other UIs have "endpoints" to work against to validate their behavior
14:26:26dreamrealor I could burn down the reference UI and have it literally be a reference UI (the whole goal was to say "this is not usable but does exercise the API properly")
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14:49:24Square2Aiui, you can put several spring boot app war's in an ear and deploy it?
14:49:43Square2(wo using ejb in those wars?)
14:50:12Square2...don't ask me why I wanna do that. Some managers seem to love the idea with "one installation".
14:51:55dreamrealSquare2: are you asking if you can do that?
14:52:05dreamrealI don't know what "aiui" means
14:52:25DoofusCanadensisaiui == As I Understand It
14:52:50dreamrealah
14:52:56dreamrealSquare2: in that case, yes.
14:53:31Square2dreamreal, thanks
14:53:52dreamrealSquare2: it's actually spring's original raison d'etre, which makes your question kinda funny
14:54:26Square2dreamreal, oh, I didn't know. I though .ear's fell out of fashion after ejb 2.1.
14:54:46dreamrealthey're still in fashion, just very different from the 1.x-2.x cycle
14:54:51dreamreallargely influenced by... spring
14:56:45Square2Oh ok. I though people solved these multi-deploys with k3s/k8s these days
14:56:55Square2thought
14:58:46dreamreal"these days" isn't really everything. You can do that, but even so: Spring's *original deployment model* was indeed multiple wars in an app server, multiple wars in an .ear was fully acceptable, with no EJBs in sight. In 2004, at the TSSJS in Las Vegas, Floyd asked the audience how many people used EJBs: they were EVERYWHERE. Then he asked how many of them used them to invoke processes *remotely* -
14:58:46dreamreallike, EJB deployed on server A, used from a WAR on server B - and it was like 2% of the audience.
14:59:21dreamrealTHAT's what Spring fixed, because that entire audience was using a *remote technology* for *local invocation* and paying a cost in development time, because ejbc *suuuuuuucked.*
15:00:32dreamrealApp servers like orion did it well: no ejbc, and it actually *optimized* local invocation even though you had to use remote semantics until EJB2. (On websphere, if you used a *remote interface* then it was going to use the network layer by god.)
15:01:17Square2dreamreal, oh, you mean inter war dependencies wasn't a big thing?
15:01:33dreamrealSquare2: inter-WAR dependencies aren't really a thing even now
15:02:13Square2gotcha! Intersting to hear.
15:02:14dreamrealinter-WAR dependencies are remote HTTP calls. Network dependencies were what the EJB was for. You have a service here, you want to invoke it from THERE, you use RMI-IIOP to invoke it and get good semantics around it.
15:03:08cheeserthe good old days
15:03:38Square2when I say inter-war dependencies I meant any dependency... even http (local) remoting etc.
15:05:05dreamrealwell... there's a lot of room for definition there. The thing is, the resources in war1 are NOT available to war2 - they don't share classpath resources. They're peers. an EJB *is* in their classpath.
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16:02:44Parafwiw I'm fairly sure Kubernetes didn't solve any actual problem, but it's good enough that it was okay to let the management believe it solves enough issues to become a standard.
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19:59:22jbosmanswell, April 1st about over and done with here, so far so good :)
19:59:42dreamrealWe still have eight hours, you fool!
20:00:13jbosmanstimezones, you fool !
20:02:29dreamrealmine is the only one that matters
20:03:45jbosmans;)
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20:07:10jbosmanswhile i joke about timezones, it did bite me during upgrades. fwiw i ended up doing;
20:07:47jbosmansmount /etc/timezone into container
20:07:56dreamrealhaha
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20:08:05jbosmansmount etc/localtime into container
20:08:33jbosmanspass -Duser.timezone=Europe/Brussels to java
20:09:48jbosmansi think the latter is most impactfull, but as always ymmv
20:10:33jbosmanswho knew time(stamps) mattered
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