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Friday, April 10, 2026
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- dreamrealhttps://bytecode.news/posts/2026/04/performance-whack-a-mole
- javabotdreamreal's title: "Performance Whack-a-Mole | bytecode.news"
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- mawkI'm trying to implement elliptic curves in my javacard applet
- mawkit takes something like 60 seconds to generate a RSA 4096 key pair
- mawkand 212ms to generate a key pair for 320 bit elliptic curve
- ParaSounds about right.
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- dreamrealhttps://bytecode.news/posts/2026/04/gitbutler-an-approach-to-git-branch-management
- mawkthe memory management is still weird to me
- mawkif you use 'new' the data is actually stored in NVRAM, it survives resets
- mawkand if you use the special API functions to allocate transient objects they're not deleted on reset, just zero-ed out
- mawkit seems that by calling the GC after each command processing I don't have memory leaking by repeatedly allocating transient objects
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- metalmaniachello there, I was wondering if someone could help me out with something I don't know how to debug within eclipse IDE. fresh installation of eclipse and maven, JDK21 for a project, imported it correctly, no errors, maven update within eclipse through ALT+F5 then seems facets nature for java fell back to jdk1.8 , the project has no 1.8 jdk defined anywhere and its pom has java version for source and
- metalmaniactarget. If back to facets and put jdk21 , errors go away, but update maven and again on the very same errors. I think maven configuration, somewhere, defines a default JDK , I have no settings.xml on my m2 but I do have a toolchain.xml for another projects. Any lead? sorry to bother and thanks in advance!
- Chronosmawk: Does your JVM not perform GCs unless you explicitly call the GC?
- mawkyeah
- mawkand the gc is an optional feature I shouldn't use it if I want to be portable
- DoofusCanadensisJavaCard operates in some tight spaces
- mawkthere's about 180KiB of flash and 4KiB of NVRAM, shared among all the applets
- mawkit's easy to go over the limit especially with the NVRAM
- mawkthe language itself is pretty limited, no strings, most often no ints
- mawkbut I compile with JDK 17 so I have all the static language feature
- mawkthese are all the library functions available and nothing else: https://docs.oracle.com/cd/E59935_01/api/index.html
- nevetJava Card API, Classic Edition
- mawkthere's a couple private/extra APIs specific to card management or using private vendor crypto APIs but that's it; and also you need to sign your soul away for a NDA for most of them
- mawkI tried, NXP politely replied "no"
- dreamreal~maven version
- javabotTo set the targeted java version (for instance java 21), add the following to your pom file: <properties><maven.compiler.release>21</maven.compiler.release></properties>
- dreamrealmetalmaniac: ^^^
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- dreamrealjavacard's been around for a long long long time :D
- mawkit's running on a tiny 8-bit secure microcontroller in my case
- mawkand from java I even have 32-bit integers which is luxurious
- ChronosAs someone that started on 8-bit microcomputers, yep, 32-bit ints are luxurious :)
- * dreamreal is so tempted by the commodore 64 ultimate...
- dreamrealmy foolish wife actually sort of gave me the thumbs up on getting one, too. I was annoyed: she was supposed to be helping me NOT get one!
- DoofusCanadensisheh
- mawkI started my career with 32 bit stuff directly
- mawknobody should be using 8-bit micros anymore unless you're a chinese cheap toy company with razor thin margins
- mawkor you have special requirements like radiation hardening or security
- Chronosdreamreal: There's also the VICE emulator for the Commodore 64. You know, I bet a really minimal Java could run on the Commodore 64...
- dreamrealor you have nostalgia poisoning! The c64u isn't actually 8bit anyway
- metalmaniacthank dreamreal but I tried those suggestions without any luck. I realise someone added some executions to the maven-compiler-plugin, if the release version is not specified there too, it always falls back to 1.8 , that seems to be its default behaviour. Thanks!
- dreamrealChronos: hey, the javalin processor is a real thing
- Chronosmawk: Except if you enjoy retrocomputing!
- mawkyeah
- mawk32 bit is retro now maybe
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- DoofusCanadensistotally is
- dreamrealthe c64 was my second real computer. The Timex/Sinclair 1000 was my first.
- dreamrealand THAT thing was a piece of... work
- Chronosdreamreal: Similar to me. My first was a TRS-80 Color Computer, my second was a Commodore 64.
- DoofusCanadensisRadio Shack/Tandy Color Computer II was my first
- dreamrealI never had a Coco - I sold them, but never owned one. It was, however, fun to run OS/9 on the things!
- DoofusCanadensisit's out in the garage for want of an RCA-HDMI adapter
- dreamrealWe used OS/9 to keep the kids confused :D
- DoofusCanadensisOS/9, eh?
- dreamrealDoofusCanadensis: look at commodore.net - they have such things, I think
- mawkthe first thing I touched was a windows 95 gateway desktop computer when I was 4-5
- mawkaround 2000
- DoofusCanadensisit was your gateway, eh
- mawkthen I broke it by flipping the little red switch on the power supply
- dreamrealDoofusCanadensis: yes, os/9!
- dreamrealit was awesome for its time :D
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- Chronosmawk: You make me feel positively fossilized
- mawklol
- cheeserbut does the Ultimate come with joysticks that are easily broken and have to be glued back together?
- dreamrealhmm, no, they have s-video to composite, not HDMI output
- ChronosThese days, all the cool kids will tell you that you're old if you program in Java ;)
- dreamrealcheeser: no, you have to buy tougher things. But you can USE those old joysticks, as I understand it
- mawkI just write C usually, but this time I had to pick up java
- DoofusCanadensisdreamreal: it could handle maybe three concurrent users‽ that's amazing
- dreamrealDoofusCanadensis: os/9? Pffft, on that machine, you were lucky to run rogue :D
- DoofusCanadensishahahaha
- dreamreal... which is what I typically did on it
- DoofusCanadensisI mean, that's what the Wikipedia entry says it was theoretically capable of
- mawkspeaking of concurrent users I convinced my javacard distributor to enable logical channels on the card, so now I can have 4 concurrent connections (or even 5 if I use both the contact and the contactless interface at the same time)
- mawkI have to find a way to safely store transient state specific to one logical channel
- dreamrealWe never tried, but we also never hooked it up to multiple-session-capable systems
- dreamrealwe also ran xenix on the RS/6000 and the 80386 machines we had in the office
- dreamrealI actually LIKED xenix back then
- Chronosmawk: What is your project? Like the 10,000 foot (or 10,000 kilometer) view?
- dreamrealthose damn 6000s were ... really kinda surprisingly good. You could literally upgrade a TRS/80 Model I to a 6000 and it'd be GREAT
- mawkI'm trying to design a cheap and removable secure element for managing certificates or secret keys
- mawklike for IoT stuff
- mawkwith the new cyber security regulations in the EU a lot of companies will have to start doing something and I can maybe become rich
- ChronosQNX > Xenix :)
- Chronosmawk: Oh, very interesting
- dreamrealQNX postdated xenix by a bit, though, and didn't have SCO at the end
- Chronosdreamreal: Xenix predates QNX?! I had no idea
- dreamrealI was using XENIX in 1987
- mawkI could also easily turn this into a yubikey-like product for consumer authentication but the market is saturated
- mawkand companies have more money
- mawk basically trying to become their concurrent: https://www.smartcard-hsm.com/
- dreamrealoooo QNX might have been ahead of Xenix
- dreamrealINTERESTING.
- Chronosdreamreal: I think you're right. It looks like Xenix may predate QNX by around 2 years.
- dreamrealXenix and QNX had different userbases, though: QNX was RTOS, yeah?
- mawkin an embedded device all they need is a USART (like UART with a clock signal) and a SIM slot, maybe a transistor to turn it off when unused, and they can talk to it
- Chronosdreamreal: Yes
- dreamrealXenis was ... not. :D
- dreamrealand then SCO poisoned the name altogether
- * Chronos mumbles something about the JNode operating system
- dreamrealbwahaha
- dreamrealJINI could have done it but Sun never could figure out how to market
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- tilerenderinghi - i need a spring boot project serving as reference (best practices with boilerplate code, ready to use and "copy" or "follow", open source etc., state of the art, you know what i mean, something like the "pet store for ejbs 20yrs ago, but shining and excellent and best-of) for spring boot with java 21. any ideas?
- dreamrealtilerendering: err... that's a pretty broad request
- tilerenderingejbs -> jee
- tilerenderingdreamreal, I actually wouldnt ask here if I hadnt stumbled upon such rereference projects a week or 2 ago
- tilerenderingbut youre right
- dreamrealI mean... spring's ecosystem is GIANT. What aspects of app development are you looking for? What kind of requirements?
- tilerenderingbasically I d like some references. with the maturity of spring boot and java (and java EE), there must be quite a comprehensive list of projects to serve as "state of the art" somewhere
- DoofusCanadensishave you tried the spring tutorials?
- dreamrealor looking on github, for that matter. There may be a spring recipes thing too
- tilerenderingdreamreal, basically a backend with oauth2 keycloak connection postgresql JPA persistence layer, behind it, able to harness java 21 optimizations (even though most will stay under the hood), along with payment integration (stripe) - there s something like that for ruby on rails and it s called "draftkit"
- tilerenderingDoofusCanadensis, well tutorials server another purpose than references
- tilerenderingserver=serve
- dreamreallook for draftkit on spring, I guess. I don't do stripe or keycloak or else I'd point you to nevet :D
- tilerenderingdreamreal, I m currently having an AI research exactly that for me, on github, among others.
- tilerenderingI just thought maybe I d find some useful info here
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- dreamrealsure, you probably still can, at least you've NOW given people something to consider as a comparison point :D
- tilerenderinglike some "duh - everybody knows - look HERE!"
- tilerenderinggot you
- tilerenderingdreamreal, arent you Mr. Lombok?
- dreamrealerr... no?
- tilerenderingah, he used to hang out here.
- dreamrealthat'd be surial, but surial hasn't been here for a long time
- tilerenderingsee? surial, surreal, dreamreal...
- tilerenderingAI-reel, look-n-feel, oneill.
- tilerenderingThe original Wiener Schnitzel is based on veil!
- dreamrealI actually don't know if I have any projects that use lombok any more
- dreamreal$work sort of does but they'e migrating away
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- tilerenderinglombok conflicted in quite some projects with other stuff - I think it was mapstruct or something else.
- tilerenderingso I basically just switched to IDE-driven generation
- dreamrealI switched mostly to records and data classes in kotlin
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- [twisti]mapstruct was historically a problematic combo, but that was fixed a very long time ago, many years certainly
- [twisti]ive always been sad how much flack lombok caught, at work too. we have a new dev who pushed to convert some of my old projects to drop lombok, and since i no longer work on them i gave my okay, i mean, hes the one who has to maintain them. so far, the code base has gone up ~700% with purely generated, copy/pasted code, and whats worse; because lombok allowed some fine tuning, 99% of that shit is copy/paste, but 1% is not. good luck noticing those
- [twisti]differences in the future amongst those thousands of pages of generated, identical looking code 🤷🏼♂️
- [twisti]i try not to care, letting go is healthy, but still
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- dreamreal[twisti]: some people want to have their fingers in every pie, yeah :(
- dreamrealI mean, I migrate away from lombok structurally - if records make sense, there we are, same for other types. But if there's not a reason to move away... why?
- [twisti]well, its their project, so i want them to feel like they can make decisions like that - they are sort of junior, not completely, but definitely compared to me. so i try not to bully my opinion when they are the ones having to do the maintenance in the future
- dreamrealOh, you're doing the right thing
- [twisti]of course they 'had problems getting it to work with lombok', which i know youre a sucker for, but in my experience, there hasnt been anything that couldnt be solved with literally five minutes of google in almost a decade in regards to lombok, so that doesnt feel like a good reason to me
- dreamrealwhat?
- dreamrealI am missing something, I think
- dreamrealI'm a sucker for "had problems getting it to work with lombok?" What does that mean, and what makes you say it?
- tilerenderingdreamreal, [twisti] : a little aspect there, another annotation there, some more annotations, some more aspects, precompile, runtime, postbla, and in the end, nobody knows whats going on anymore!
- tilerendering:)
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- [twisti]dreamreal: thats one of the arguments you used to bring up, and jump on when people came here that had a problem with that, basically saying 'thats why i dislike lombok'
- [twisti]its fine, you werent wrong
- dreamrealwhat?
- dreamrealI mean, my argument against lombok isn't that it doesn't WORK, it's that it's not entirely necessary, but what it does it does really well
- [twisti]lombok causing problems for peoples build process, ides, code checkers/analyzers, due to how lombok hooked into javac in a non-sanctioned way
- dreamrealbuilders in lombok are great, the rest is less necessary than it was, and the AST dependency is a concern
- tilerenderingcan we all agree to some more diversity here? @Getters @Setters @Whatsoevers?
- tilerenderingbtw what is AST again
- dreamrealbut that's a maintenance problem: how much do you trust surial, etc., and should you? Generally the answer is "yes" but it's STILL a trust issue
- [twisti]granted, that was back when they used to do a lot more illegal black magic, before their kind of magic was properly supported by java/javac
- dreamreal~ast
- javabotAn AST (or "Abstract Syntax Tree") is a reference to a structure generated from an input. A sentence, then, might have an "AST" of a subject, verb, and a predicate, where the predicate is optional and all three parts might be constructed with different complexity. Program source is normally conversted to an AST before generating executable code.
- tilerenderingah AST, the tree recursively worked on by a parser for instance
- tilerenderingdidnt know it was called ast
- dreamrealtilerendering: lombok works by hooking into some javac internals, there's not a published API they use, so it has to be ported for every iteration of javac; it's fairly constant so they can track it really closely, but even so
- dreamrealand they're *really* good coders
- [twisti]ive been sadly out of touch with java for years by now; does java have first class support for @Delegate these days ? `class SomeListWrapper implements List<T> { @Delegate private final ArrayList ... }` would just delegate all non-overridden calls to interface methods to the, well, delegate
- [twisti]we made such nice code with that
- dreamrealI don't quite know what [twisti] is talking about. I don't tell people "you should use lombok!" but apparently that means I'm anti-lombok now
- [twisti]composition > inheritance
- [twisti]dude, you used to have a real chip on your shoulder about lombok
- dreamrealnot that I know of yet
- dreamrealI'm trying to remember having such a chip, esp when I was the person who first put lombok in print
- dreamrealhell, I remember asking surial if that was okay *here* (well, on freenode, but still)
- [twisti]i feel like we used to get into arguments about it all the time
- dreamrealI think you argue with me a lot more than I argue with you, TBH
- dreamrealyou keep saying I have chips on my shoulders about things you like, or whatever, and I'm pretty much always slightly lost, and I don't really enjoy not understanding WTF is going on much
- dreamrealand since I keep wondering what you're talking about, that actually creates a low-grade conflict, because I really don't know what you're talking about when it comes to me very much
- [twisti]to be fair, from my perspective it feels like the exact opposite - like you retroactively change how/what you remember a lot
- tilerenderingI dont like the term "coding" btw.
- dreamrealmaybe it's because I don't actually take hard positions very often, as a professional behavior
- dreamrealI can push back on almost all positions, and I push back on absolute statements habitually because absolutism is almost always wrong
- dreamrealon reddit: "Spring sucks!" No, it kinda doesn't. "Spring lover!" ... meanwhile I wrote articles saying why Spring wasn't necessary and it's still not necessary. "Oh, you love Jakarta EE huh?!?!" No, I write Spring apps pretty much every day.
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- [twisti]ive stopped collecting logs, and on some level i suspect as rational as it feels, going through decade old logs to win an argument is somehow neither fair nor productive, but in this instance i would love to go back and see what really happened. my memory is terrible, but usually in the 'i dont remember' way, not the 'i made up fake memories' way
- dreamrealWell, it *sounds like* you have an impression that either got reinforced or did NOT get opposed and it calcified
- dreamrealbut you have your own life and your own impressions, and that's fine
- dreamrealI stopped suggesting lombok and stopped using it in my own code, for actual reasons that I find rational and justifiable, but if someone uses it, I don't *care*
- dreamrealThe number of projects I utterly reject is really pretty low: siteminder, vignette storyserver, dynamodb
- dreamrealafter that... don't really care
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- dreamrealif $work were to say "let's front storyserver with siteminder, and use dynamo as a backend" I'd quit within about five minutes, as soon as I stopped screeching in rage at them
- dreamrealthankfully they're not stupid so none of those will infect our codebase
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- [twisti]ive been shoved into the world of outdated php and react, so who am i to talk
- dreamrealIt's kinda funny: at work they'll mention technology X, and I'm constantly going "oh, I know that guy" :D
- Swayzepsychologist prob
- Swayzeor try #php
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- jbosmansregarding lombok, to me that's a case of choosing between pretty clear upsides and downsides
- jbosmansaka a tradeoff i guess
- jbosmansand/or "trade off"
- jbosmansi remember thinking when a saw an early talk a long time ago (i think javapolis days) that it was a lot of generated code that removed a lot of boilerplate, which was nice
- jbosmansbut then, besides coding i also had to put out a lot of production fires, where generated code doesn't help per se
- jbosmansin any case i think it is and always was a very clever project, with attached pro's and cons as always
- cheesermostly cons
- jbosmansfor me same
- jbosmans~4 hours until artemis 2 reentry
- javabotjbosmans, what does that even *mean*?
- cheeseri'm worried about that heat shield.
- jbosmansyeah, read same :s
- jbosmansi'm sure it'll be fine
- cheeserwhat's the worst that could happen? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
- jbosmansyeah :s
- jbosmansi'm not religious, but (choose to) have faith in nasa's attention to detail
- ParaI'm annoyed that it's still not reusable boosters.
- ParaOther than that, space is cool. Stuff.
- cheeserfaith isn't exclusive to religion. replacing logic with it (almost) is. :)
- jbosmansokay, i agree :)
- jbosmansafaik no logical reasons to assume the worst tho
- jbosmansalso, afaik, there'd be a backup plan, and then x more
- jbosmansregarding lombok again, the only generated code i know of in use is for 1 project, where the code in question were once classes and now records, and said code is generated by manually written java code and compiled as part of the standard classpath
- jbosmansbasically a (whole) bunch of DTOs
- jbosmansdefined by a non-java ERP for that matter
- Para~immutables
- javabotPara, immutables is an annotation processor capable of producing fully immutable objects with many configurable features from a simple interface or abstract class definition. See https://immutables.github.io
- ParaIt was that time again.
- jbosmanshow so?
- jbosmans(crazy view watching artemis approach the earth)
- ParaPeople tend to revolve around the whole lombok or not to lombok thing, while the true answer is "immutables until withers" (:
- jbosmansI tend to agree, unless mistaken "until withers" is superfluous tho ;)
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