Community
Chat Logs
Saturday, April 25, 2026
- Drixtanwhen you are you reinventing the wheel, it seems like configuring stuff, indeed... That being said, if you have this feeling, maybe it's a company issue or project issue; where you are doing more boiler plates than coding business logics. Just an impression
- Drixtans/when you are you/when you are not/
- zimIs Quarkus very different compared to Spring Boot? I see it also has plenty of Annotations, but does it have less magic / indirection than Spring?
- zimOr do you have any job recommendations for IT-adjacent jobs (not in it-administration) that possibly won't be obliterated by LLMs?
- Drixtanquarkus is different, but still with annotations. If you go for the native build, there are some gotcha that you need to know: not all libraries can fit in that model, since you can't use reflection anymore. You need to use libraries that are made for quarkus - that's a whole new configuration / put the piece together game that I am quite certain you would not fit into it.
- Drixtanplumber.
- zimDrixtan, plumber is IT-adjacent? :)
- Drixtanit seems weird to say, but tech writer. "But wait, wouldn't it be the first job to be taken from by LLM?" I see you asking. Well, not really, since you have to feed that LLM with some quality data, and that's where tech writers are coming to the rescue
- zimDrixtan, oh sorry, I forgot to mention, I don't want to touch a LLM.
- Drixtanembedded software / hardware. Work with new hardware, make the device drivers for it...
- Drixtansomething something along those lines I guess
- zimWon't LLMs be able to do that?
- DrixtanLLM must have training data, and if the hardware is new, no training data. Often, the hardware specs are closed specs (closed sources), so it's harder for LLM to reach that data, if you follow what I am saying.
- Drixtanyou could design those boards too, which is closer to hardware than software, but still
- Drixtanbut really, you should try to move to another company, it makes all the difference.
- zimCouldn't the company feed a LLM the specs and the LLM spews the embedded software?
- Drixtanhe could, that's how the tool is working - feed it, it throws it back to you...
- * b3t10 joined #java
- zimcouldn't basically any person of the street just do that?
- DrixtanA cook is cutting stuff and putting it over some kind of heat. Couldn't basically any person of the street just do that?
- zimI guess with a short crash course and good provided instructions, yeah. It's just following a detailed recipe / algorithm step by step correctly.
- Drixtanalright, so there you go, your next career move!
- zimminimum wage slave? great!
- * Betal joined #java
- Drixtanwell, I am quite sure people getting hired by Anthropics are kind of in a higher bracket than minimum wage - but they might be slaves thou, who knows
- zimAh, I thought you meant I should become a cook.
- Drixtanah, oh well, idk, I have a cook friend and he has a house, a wife, 2 kids, a car... I don't know about the wage thou
- Drixtananyway, go see a career orientation specialist (or whatever it is called) and talk to them. They are generally free for youngsters and they have resources to guide you.
- zimhm, I'm too old for that and they don't know what LLMs will do
- zimDrixtan, thank you the info and your thoughts.
- Drixtangood luck, it's a messed up time we are living at the moment, one side, there are the pro-AI saying we will lose all our jobs, and on the other side, we see these "AI" sucks at coding. In between, there are us, knowing that pressing keys on the keyboard is just a small part of the job and that we should not worry about it too much... Try to be in the middle, will ya? :)
- zimIt's hard with so many job application rejections. The thing I'm asking myself is, am I wasting time not going into another field? But I don't even have an idea what that field could be. And that would be a huge step and involve 2-3 years of badly paid trade education for a job with less pay I had before.
- zimWell, thanks anyway, I'm out, have a nice day.
- b3t10do plumbing
- zimb3t10, I'm 40. I'm afraid of spiders. I don't drive a car and I don't want to drive one.
- b3t10im doing plumbing but I get it is hard out there myself with 20 years in tech not even an interview
- b3t1037 myself
- Drixtanyou guys are too old, that's why... after 28 it's time to retire.
- zimImpossible with the shit pay in my country.
- * deavmi joined #java
- b3t10Drixtan, at 20 you dont even understand the full complexity of production and how companies work they don't teach that at school
- DrixtanI was joking, in case someone didn't get it ;)
- b3t10okay i didnt lol
- b3t10xD
- DrixtanI am 45, so, I am not well placed to call you old.
- Drixtanthey are just getting resumes to feed their AI / databank, if you are not passing an interview, it's not rejection, take it that way.
- Drixtanpassing = getting*
- b3t1045 not even old just on midexperienced master
- DrixtanI didn't send a resume for like 6 months, then I sent one for a specific company. I got spam calls every single day for the next 2 weeks... surely not related...
- b3t10^^^^^^^
- b3t10that
- b3t10all those fake stuff on indeed
- b3t10and also linkedn
- Drixtanwell, the company is very close to were I live, like, it exists and all... but anyway
- Drixtanit was like a shitty company, but at like 10 mins walking from my place, so yeah, let's apply
- b3t10well aslong as it brings revenue fk it
- b3t10but most of em are paying crumbs
- zimheh, I also applied to a company 10 mins from my place
- Drixtanyea, my passion is software engineering, you know, not being a drone in a corpo. I've learnt to split my work from my passion. They are the same, but not the same, if you know what I mean.
- b3t10at this time cutting costs like no car no insurance and no repairs + maintance
- zimI'm master of cutting costs.
- b3t10that will increase the liquid
- b3t10i do webdev and network admin
- Drixtandid you try to apply for devops?
- zimI don't do anything that costs money.
- b3t10most of what i get is training AI shit
- Drixtanpoison the well :)
- b3t10zim, i had a bunch of tools like a powerwash i bough myself a tank and some soap and do car wash on weekends . . a webdev and netadmin xD
- b3t10Drixtan, oh i will
- b3t10if i ever get hired
- zimb3t10, you did that while you were working an IT job?
- b3t10company i worked closed down I just like buying tools for personal use always had a thing for cars cruise nights and carshows and stuff
- b3t10highschool days will go to drag racing with fellas that liked and always liked having my ride clean
- b3t10hate dirty cars
- zimWhat's a cruise night?
- b3t10zim, oh its a gathering of cars on sunday nights on public parking lots all type of cars will be there mostly stock xD but there would be some fancy sexy wheels there
- zimb3t10, that sounds like a thing that happens in the US, right?
- b3t10U.S and Mexico i live right on the border
- b3t10<-- mexican bean
- b3t10old bean
- zimHow is the drug war? I read somewhere cartels torture people there.
- b3t10is bad
- b3t10kidnapping people for buying drugs from other turfs or even for having a small bussiness without paying its monthly "security" subscription
- zimshit, can you move somewhere safer?
- b3t10it doesnt matter if you do good or bad. . If you do good and do clean money they still want a cut . . they will go after family, kids anyone if it means taking your money. .
- b3t10zim, I can but most of them cant and other half are family or friends with them . .
- zimso you are staying there because of your friend and family who can't leave?
- b3t10you cant just talk or do bussiness freely . . depending on industry. . myself is Agriculture wich dominated by cartels due to open labor recruitments that will hire certain group of people
- b3t10Also help the money laoundry . .
- b3t10Myself my mom is old and cant move alot. . only forher
- b3t10but im ready
- zimWhere are you planning to go?
- b3t10colorado
- b3t10or if shit goes bad in the US to mex
- b3t10i have a small land piece
- zimnice, but what do you imagine would go bad in the US? ICE?
- b3t10not really agencies are the least of the problems
- b3t10the problem is the credibility and the broken international trade contracts
- b3t10lack of resources infrastucture not holding population
- zimlack of resources?
- b3t10yes theres alot of programs that would help bussinesses aswell as natural resources being compromised due to lack of water
- zimI thought the US is or could be mostly independent or atarkic, at least for the essentials, energy, food, basic materials
- b3t10in order for a safe food production water is the number one resource that must be on certain standards and second that ground. We not only produce vegetables but also beef and meats.
- b3t10zim, might in certain areas of the industry but for us water number one. . Food production aint no joke.
- b3t10specially when it comes to crops that are tied to specif climates and seasons. .
- zimBut meat is luxury. Lots of plants are only planted to feed the animals. But what's the problem with the water? Climate change, less rain?
- b3t10less rain and snow
- b3t10we fill our irrigation dams from snow up from the Rocky Mountains of Colorado
- b3t10warmer cycles means less snow and less water for the colorado river
- b3t10water consumption is heavy due to maintaing more than multiple communities. . most of them Metropolitan Communities. .
- b3t10West Coast is based on food production from the colorado river. . all the way to the East coast. .
- zimWhat? That sounds insane.
- b3t10yup dams have never been upgraded to maintan or match population growth . .
- b3t10So theres were those resources come into play . .
- b3t10some billions on water infrastructure but hey wars are more important. .
- zimWhy are they building water-slurping data centers all over the place?
- b3t10zim, control and dominance = power. . these people are ill no joke
- zimWhere are the safest places to be, if there's a massive problem with the Colorado river? The coasts? Can you use sea water, desalinate it or something?
- * justyb11 joined #java
- b3t10not sure probably desalination could be an option but for food production would be costly. . not sure the issues but i know that they have discussed it already seems isnt a viable option becouse of cost and logistcs involved
- * torfbauer joined #java
- zim_damn, 32% of the water consumption of the Colorado river is for cattle feed and only 20% for wheat, cotton and other crops.
- * justyb11 joined #java
- zimb3t10, gotta go, good luck with your eventual road to safety
- * zim left #java (Leaving)
- * Aedil joined #java
- * justyb11 joined #java
- * henbruas_ joined #java
- * Shell joined #java
- * Aedil joined #java
- * leppard joined #java
- * stfstfm joined #java
- * cronos joined #java
- * stfstfm_ joined #java
- * Betal joined #java
- * stfstfm joined #java
- * magla joined #java
- * MonsoonSecrecy joined #java
- * deglebe joined #java
- * MikeBux joined #java
- * waznot joined #java
- * leppard joined #java
- * stfstfm_ joined #java
- * stfstfm joined #java
- * stfstfm_ joined #java
- mawkcan I easily delete methods and properties from a .class file?
- * stfstfm joined #java
- mawkI want to backport a library to a previous version, I know which methods were added in the newer versions so I need to remove the newer ones
- mawkthe .class file is just a stub, it doesn't have the method contents
- ernimrilmawk, uhm... sort of, but it may not work the way you want... Pretty easy to do with the classfile api
- ernimrilhowever, if the class is part of a signed jar, you will have a problem
- mawkyeah I just delete the signatures and hashes
- mawkit's for javacard so it's a bit particular
- mawkto use an on-card library you need to provide a stub .jar of the library, which describes the classes, properties and methods in the library; but the methods in the .jar are empty, they're just used for their signature
- mawkand the .jar also contains an export file which translates method names and constants into offsets into the library
- mawkI already took care of the export file by deleting the new methods and making sure the offsets are compatible with the older version and that works
- mawkbut the .class file format seems a lot more complex
- ernimrilas I said, use the classfile api
- ernimrilhttps://www.baeldung.com/java-class-file-api
- javaboternimril's title: "Introduction to the Class-File API | Baeldung"
- mawkthanks
- ernimrilor this, if you want a more video format: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcg-E_qyMOI
- nevetYouTube: A Classfile API for the JDK #JVMLS | Java
- * zim joined #java
- ParaThis sounds like a lot of work.
- ParaI'm just hoping that it's not one of those things where the previous version turns out to be easily available.
- ernimrila lot of work? did you check the video? it has example of transformation, in that case they are stripping annotations, you want to strip some method, more or less the same thing
- ParaI mean the whole thing, reverse engineering a library to work in javacard.
- * zim joined #java
- mawkPara it's a proprietary library only available after a NDA and presumably a lot of money
- mawkI didn't sign any NDA though, and I came in possession of the latest version
- mawkwhich is for the NXP JCOP 4.5 smartcards, and I'm backporting it to the more common JCOP 4 cards now
- mawkthe library itself is already preloaded on all the cards by NXP from factory, the "library" I'm working with is just the stubs needed to get your code to talk to the card's library
- mawkbut since there's no discovery or download mechanism on the card if you don't have these stubs you can't use the card libraries
- * Aedil joined #java
- * acidjnk_new joined #java
- * agnivn joined #java
- * stfstfm_ joined #java
- * stfstfm joined #java
- * stfstfm_ joined #java
- * stfstfm_ joined #java
- * canton7 joined #java
- mawkthe .class file format is actually pretty close to the .exp file format actually
- * waznot joined #java
- Paramawk: NDA protected libraries are generally also protected by other way stronger laws as well. Just saying.
- * polarian joined #java
- * SJrX joined #java
- dreamrealdo not advocate for piracy here
- mawkit's not really a library, it's an "export map"
- mawkit doesn't contain code
- dreamrealand...
- mawkone of my distributors gave it to me without having me sign the NDA
- mawkso I'm free
- dreamrealwere THEY free to do so?
- mawkprobably not, but I'm not a jurist
- dreamrealI'm not sure that actually clears you of any laws
- dreamrealyeah, no
- mawkit's China, they have no regards for intellectual property
- dreamrealavoid like the plague
- dreamrealanywhere that does consider law important, you're guilty
- dreamrealand again: not here
- dreamrealthis is not a negotiable
- dreamrealHere's the thing: you don't know if there's a member of the court here
- dreamrealtalking about it like "well, they did it, so I'm free, *I* didn't do it, I'mjust benefiting from it" is a *reportable action* and an admission
- dreamrealto be clear: I am not a lawyer. Yet if I weren't me, I'd be heeding my words on multiple levels here.
- * Successus joined #java
- mawkI'll ask the lawyer I know
- dreamrealThis is wise. But the channel policy HERE is to prevent discussions of piracy as an undertaking in any way. People here get paid for their work product. If you talk about pirating books, you're literally talking about stealing from *me*, for example.
- ParaAnd there might be people present under contracts which require them to report any and all infractions; mix that with international context and stuff gets just too much of a headache.
- dreamrealYep, and again, there might be actual members of courts or law enforcement here.
- dreamrealnot just contracted entities, but people who actually have a responsibility to note and act.
- dreamrealIt's a murky area, but dancing in it is M O O N dumb.
- dreamrealSo don't.
- * deavmi is a lawyer
- mawkI asked a guy who's got the NDA that would be necessary for me to get access to these files through proper channel and he says as long as I didn't sign the NDA myself I can use these; but he's not a lawyer either
- * deavmi is also joking
- dreamrealmawk: doing some casual research suggests your friend is almost exactly 100% incorrect
- dreamrealTHIS CHANNEL IS LOGGED, dumbass.
- mawkwhat
- * waznot joined #java
- dreamrealSee /topic. This channel is publicly logged.
- dreamrealYou're volunteering information about breaking trade law.
- mawkthat's not the part of the message that interrogates me
- dreamrealI keep saying "hey, some advice: don't" and you keep saying "it's fine" and here's the thing: I really don't wanna see some footnote somewhere talking about some idiot hacker wannabe paying a fine for violating *even china's Anti-Unfair Competition Law* because his FRIEND said it'd be fine
- dreamrealI'm moving from dropping what I think are gentle hints to anvils and you're just Wile E. Coyote-ing about
- mawkdoes it make you feel good to insult people like that?
- mawkthat's not "dropping hints"
- * mawk left #java (Leaving)
- dreamrealYou think that's an INSULT? Someone says "hey, I'm probably definitely violating law AND I'm in direct opposition to the channel rules at this point AND I'm gonna just keep reinforcing the 'violating the law'" and you think "dumbass" is the insult? Crikey, keep going down this route and you're going to earn "prisoner #10506" and I think "dumbass" would be far more preferable. You can correct ACTING
- dreamrealstupid; you can't fix BEING stupid.
- Pararawr.
- dreamrealOh no. he left.
- dreamrealI wasn't watching the channel join/part until after I'd hit "enter." Oh, well.
- dreamrealI don't understand adults with that kind of code. If I do or say something dumb, I want my community to call me out on it.
- ParaOn a general observation level, I've always found the "it's ok, my friend said so" an interesting argument. As if externalizing responsibility would make one devoid of any.
- ParaAnd then of course the "it's okay to steal from thieves" is equally bold strategy as well.
- ParaOver here we have in law even that stupidity is not a valid clause for lessening sentences :D
- * sa02irc joined #java
- dreamrealNot sure that's limited to "over there." I did some casual research, like I said, as a responsibility, and found few jurisdictions in which that kind of context removes direct culpability.
- ParaLike you can be stupid enough to not realize that you commited a crime, but it has to be of the medical kind as evaluated by an actual expert and something exceptional.
- ParaAnyway. Complex stuff, and there's this one magic trick all lawyers hate that you can use to avoid all of this - just don't do crimes.
- dreamrealI was trying to not pick up the banhammer, grrr. Succeeded, but...
- dreamrealPara: ++
- nevetPara now has karma of 3.
- dreamrealin other news: I got a commodore 64!
- ParaThere's actual new production C64:s now!
- ParaFPGA based, but full support for original peripherals.
- dreamrealThat is NO LIE. I have it hooked up right now. As soon as my HDMI switch comes in, it's going on my desk. :D
- dreamrealI might turn on video for team meetings now, see if I can hook it up as a keyboard for my mac. But man, I'd forgotten how wonky that keyboard was.
- Parahttps://www.commodore.net/ for those who weren't aware, Commodore 64 Ultimate
- dreamreal^^^ yep.
- ParaDo you have an original SID?
- dreamrealIf you have an actual 1541, it *works*. I don't (nor do I have the original SID) but the SID emulation is *great* on it - poor low end and all!
- dreamrealIt even emulates the blazing speed of the 1541 and 1571 :D
- ParaIt's got double SID slot in fact, because there's two chips - you can put both in and switch on the fly.
- dreamrealI just got mine last night, so I haven't even updated the kernal yet
- ParaFinnish Pelit magazine had an article from a guy who has all the original bits, and there was a paragraph about loading games from a tape and how it was equally nostalgic and enraging to load a flight sim game three times because it kept erroring, just like back in the day.
- ParaAnd one load would be about 15 minutes, obviously.
- dreamrealYeah, I'm now looking for some of the old games: they have some ports of games I remember ("acid runner" is what lode runner turned into, turns out lode runner is still better, but DANG)
- dreamrealI'd be up there noodling around on it right now except I saw something that might be interesting for BCN
- dreamrealIt'd fascinating having color, though. When I had my c64 I had a monochrome monitor: red, not green, which made some things really interesting :D
- dreamrealamber monitor, that's the one. And since I couldn't differentiate shades of red, if the brightness wasn't distinct enough it was all the same color. :D
- dreamrealSeeing things IN color is amazing: I'm going "huh... was that there all that time?"
- dreamrealthat "couldn't differentiate shades of red" is why I don't do UI/UX at all: it's a neurological condition, not a "I had an amber monitor" thing. The monitor only amplified the problem for some games, it's not the source of it. And hey, it was cheap! And cool, because everyone else's monochrome displays were dumb ol' GREEN.
- BombeI also had an amber monitor back in the 90s, and I liked it so much more than the stupid green ones.
- dreamrealI still need to find some games for the 64, I think.
- dreamrealIt's kinda fun playing games where the entire manual was on one page. "Hit 'fire' a lot on the joystick. Hours of entertainment!"
- Paradreamreal: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phOjmGxK5EQ it's got subtitles - also the main star is the same guy who made My Summer Car, and later on its sequel My Winter Car
- nevetYouTube: Urheiludokumentti - The Sports Documentary | Airola
- dreamrealbwahaha
- dreamrealwait this ain't in english
- ParaRojola is our version of a True Renaissance Man. If Renaissance meant Finnish countryside in the 80s and 90s.
- dreamrealI also need to find some manuals to go with this thing so I can remember how to program it
- dreamrealit's been a minute
- * magla joined #java
- jreicherPara: convincing oneself that externalising responsibility is valid makes life EASIER. That's the incentive for the delusion.
- jreicherEven (especially?) large corporations engage in this delusion. It's called outsourcing risk.
- dreamrealIt also works about 1%.
- jreicherDepends on whether the people who made the decision have retired by the time the cows come home to roost.
- dreamrealYeah, I guess. I have a hard time understanding people who think that way.
- dreamrealOr so I hope. :D
- jreicherCongratulations, you're not a psychopath. But you have to accept you'll never be CEO.
- dreamrealHeh. I turned down a job once that offered a 400% raise to go to the c-suite once because I couldn't fathom operating in that world.
- dreamreallike, basically adding a zero to my income.
- ParaYou don't have to be a psychopath necessarily. Mental nematodes do very well as well.
- jreicherCan you get them online?
- * PyR3X joined #java
- dreamrealhahaha
- ParaSorry, no, just degrees.
- jreicherProbably an MBA would do the trick.
- * PyR3X joined #java
- jreicherI wonder if they're also going to start making Amigas again
- dreamrealman, I had forgotten SO MANY of these games
- dreamrealI still have some I need to find: Stealth, Seven Cities of Gold...
- Parajreicher: Amiga brand is actively owned and "used" by someone, I think, so it's more difficult.
- ParaI think Workbench is also technically still under active development available for purchase through some really specific pathway.
- jreicherPara: I know there's a group periodically releasing versions of an emulator. But it would be nice to have some hardware.
- jreicherI'm still blown away by how good AmigaOS was
- ParaAmiga OS 4.1 was released in 2021.
- * PyR3X joined #java
- * stewi joined #java
- jreicherOh! I don't understand why development has continued
- ParaAmiga, Inc. became defunct in...2019.
- jreicherThis is interesting. https://www.amigaos.net/content/72/supported-hardware
- jreicherI had no idea
- ParaWhat kinda surprises me is just how many of the Voodoo GPUs actually work on Amigas.
- ParaIncluding Voodoo 5500 PCI.
- dreamrealyou guys are nerds. Now help me find better sources for my 64. I am not a nerd. You can tell because my beanie doesn't have a triprop.
- jreicherI'm quite offended by this. I don't even wear beanies.
- dreamrealWhat kin dof nerd ARE you, geez
- dreamrealOOO I have COMAL on this collection
- dreamrealand simon's basic, too
- dreamrealbwahaha
- ParaOn that tangent, I've been looking into getting a summer beanie.
- ParaGetting older and losing lots of weight has made me constantly chilly.
- ParaMaybe I'll do the fellow kids -style eternally young hiphop fan look.
- jreicherI've never heard of a summer beanie.
- dreamrealit's called a yarmulke.
- ParaBe the change you want to see in the world etc.
- ParaSome people wear skullcaps and such both those aren't exactly warm.
- dreamrealI just wear a toque like a human.
- * GreenResponse joined #java
- * x1bncwn joined #java
- * agnivn joined #java
- * deavmi joined #java
- * rvalue joined #java
- * deavmi joined #java
- * jsmooth left #java (Konversation terminated!)
- DoofusCanadensisI am wearing a toque right now
- DoofusCanadensisstupid snow overnight. I want it to be spring already
- DrixtanDoofusCanadensis: damn, where are you from?
- DoofusCanadensisWell, Canada for starters.
- DoofusCanadensisSouthern Alberta
- Drixtandamn, it's like 10 here, next door... well, about 3000km east of you "next door" ;)
- ParaWe've been having third winter today as well. Well, most of country today, here in southern part should be next night.
- ParaBut only for half a day just so that all the budding flowers and bees and whatever suffer, of course.
- Drixtanwell, budding flowers and bees should brace themselves, because wild fires are coming ;)
- * yeahitsme joined #java
- * P1RATEZ joined #java
- * stfstfm joined #java
- * stfstfm__9178 joined #java
- * emaczen joined #java
- * Krusher joined #java
- * stfstfm joined #java
- * stfstfm_ joined #java
- * agnivn joined #java
- * xeno joined #java
- * stfstfm joined #java
- * stfstfm_ joined #java
- * MikeBux joined #java
- * mwnaylor joined #java
- * mwnaylor left #java (ERC 5.6.0.30.1 (IRC client for GNU Emacs 30.2))
- * Ragnor joined #java
- * vincere5 joined #java
- * Ragnor joined #java
- * stfstfm joined #java
- * zim joined #java
- * roesyyu joined #java
- * agnivn joined #java
- * Chronos isn't looking forward to Canada being on fire again this year
- * zorone joined #java
- * LtHummus joined #java