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Chat Logs
Wednesday, May 6, 2026
- noobiewanHi, is there a channel dedicated to Spring?
- cheesernot that i'm aware of. at least not on libera.
- GreenResponsethere is #spring.io but it has only 2 people there
- dreamrealnoobiewan: if you have a question, ask
- dreamrealthere are people who know spring well here
- cheeserthe poor sods
- Swayzelol
- Swayzethat speaks nothing to the actual popularity and commerical use cases for spring
- Swayzeespecially with all these so called 'supply chain' hacks on the public non-curated eco-systems of late
- Swayzenon-centrally-curated*
- Swayzeand the last decade of performance and language enhancements
- Swayzejava and spring is not going anywhere anytime soon ...
- dreamrealI'm not sure what the point would be
- Fijithe point would be we're here to argue about why quarkus is better than spring!~!!
- cheeserfuck yeah!
- dreamrealargue away then
- dreamrealI'll watch from way over here
- ParaAh, the Jerry Springer method. "He's cheating on you. I'll just leave this knife here. Discuss."
- dreamrealnah, it's just not my monkey, not my circus
- dreamrealif people want to have that argument, they're welcome to, it's just not mine
- ParaAs my high school principal told us on the day of graduation, "Clowns are leaving but the circus will remain."
- noobiewanI'm just starting with Spring and I'm trying to figure out what's the best way to write a simple, run-once-or-twice "script"? I just want to run some experiments or have some utilities that I can run from time to time, but taking advantage of the spring context (database configs etc). All ideas I got from LLMs are a bit cumbersome, nothing quick and dry, like having a CommandLineRunner + graddle
- noobiewantask for instance. Is there a better way?
- cheeserwhy would you need/want spring for that?
- sonOfRaFor a single one-off script it seems odd, but I guess the database stuff is nice to have and might be annoying in a shell script?
- noobiewanI'm working on a project that will use spring... for instance right now I'm testing some database stuff so I'm generating fake data, usually I would just write a script in python or whatever but then I would need to make sure to have the same configuration in two different places, similar libraries etc
- dreamrealspring has CLI tools, spring-shell is a thing
- sonOfRaIf you already have a project, why not add a maven/gradle submodule that does your shell stuff?
- noobiewanthe way I got it working was by creating a new class that implements CommandLineRunner and is annotated with @SpringBootApplication, then I run it with the flag --spring.main.web-application-type=none
- dreamrealsure
- dreamrealso do that?
- sonOfRaWouldn't want it packaged with the main application when building the deployment artifacts, but that's what build systems are for!
- dreamrealI mean, it's overkill but it gives you what you need
- noobiewanbut since I'm new, it seems overkill like you said, so I'm wondering if there is another way
- dreamrealnah
- dreamrealdo what works
- dreamreal~suffering
- javabotSuffering-oriented programming: make it work, make it pretty, make it fast - in that order. http://nathanmarz.com/blog/suffering-oriented-programming.html
- nevetSuffering-oriented programming - thoughts from the red planet - thoughts from the red planet
- dreamrealif you're using spring, this encourages reuse, it's a lot for a CLI but eh
- sonOfRaAnd the way spring shell works is nice honestly. Easy definition of options for the scripts etc. We use it for some admin tasks in our Keycloak instance. Did it with shell scripts and curl at first, but it's much easier with the keycloak-admin-client java library, and so we went with spring-shell
- noobiewanI will take a look, thanks
- dreamrealand oh yeah just to satisfy the punters, QUARKUS IS SO MUCH GOODER
- dreamreal(I do not believe that but I'm tryna shut them up before they start shouting the same thing)
- dreamreal(I also do not believe "spring is so much gooder" but the spring people tend to be less rabid about that sort of thing, not that the stupid quarkus fanbois are stupid or anything)
- cheeserless rabid, eh?
- dreamrealYES AND HOW DARE YOU IMPLY OTHERWISE ABOUT THE BENEVOLENT SPRING OVERLORDS
- dmlloydstupid quarkus fanbois are very smart, thank you very much
- dreamrealthey're too stupid to not point out that they're very smart, though
- dreamrealyou're WELCOME
- * dreamreal runs
- sonOfRaI feel so dirty using a spring app to admin keycloak (quarkus)
- jbosmans't is good to have options
- DrixtanI am doing some PoC for an app I want to make, testing quarkus (new to me) was a breeze, now I am testing go, and I want to die for 3 days right now... my first impression was _very_ good to be honest :-/
- dreamrealgo is good?
- Drixtanno, other way around, go = wanna die
- dreamrealah, your first impression of GO was good, and then it eroded?
- Drixtanno, let me rephrase. I tested quarkus, its new to me, all good, I was pleased. I am testing go for 3 days now, I want to die.
- dreamrealah, okay
- dreamrealI was struggling trying to parse what you'd written
- DrixtanI saw that hehe
- dreamrealquarkus IS good, but you kinda have to think quarkus; it's pretty opinionated, largely to your benefit
- dreamrealspring is opinionated but in different ways and to different degrees; if you need the flexibility, there you are, and the ecosystem is broader
- dreamrealI actually don't have a lot of preferences; I know spring better but meh, if someone asked me what *I* would use it'd be spring, but if they asked me what THEY should use, I'd shrug
- dreamrealand go is okay but the ecosystem around it is... a little more fast and loose than I would like, I think
- dreamreala lot of go devs are like "what, you don't test in prod like I do?"
- DrixtanI fail to see a positive point for go right now, I don't want to be "one of those bashing a language", but so far, so many "wtf is that" moments, so much boiler plates - I thought java had boilerplates, but go has boilerplate for your boilerplates. :P
- dreamreal(a friend of mine wanted me to run 18MB of artifacts written in go... with zero tests in the codebase. Um...)
- DrixtanI thought, since I love doing C, that I would like go; there is probably something wrong with me, so I keep trying
- dreamrealyou'd probably be happier with zig (as long as you don't mind throwing code away when they find a better path, a lot like scala but MUCH nicer as a community) or rust
- DrixtanI did some zig, 0.13 to 0.15 (io gate)
- dreamrealI actually respect zig's mindset: they're not intentionally unstable but they're willing to say "look, what we did wasn't right"
- DrixtanI stayed outside that gate, I had enough of the changes. It's all fine, it's not 1.0 yet, but I don't think I am going to see 1.0 in my lifetime
- dreamrealyeah, well, there IS that
- dreamrealso that leaves you with rust :D
- dreamrealor the JVM
- dreamrealjust don't use scala
- dreamrealI'm pretty open-minded in general but scala is to be avoided
- Drixtanyea, I am checking rust, see if it's going to take so much more time than go, for example.... but right now, Quarkus is high in the picking list
- dreamrealthe language itself is great, I think, but everything else about it is the worst
- dreamrealquarkus is great as long as you fit its opinions about design, which is a pretty broad umbrella, honestly
- Drixtanis scala still at thing? I remember back then, people were like: "it's the future, java's dead!", and look at that today
- dreamrealit's still a thing, yes, but the ecosystem's toxicity is working against it, and no real loss
- Drixtansince you seem to know quarkus, what are the things I should watchout, like the gotcha gotcha that could come bite me in the ass - "because you just had to know before"
- dreamrealI wouldn't be the one to document them: I don't know quarkus all that well, I've just kicked the tires
- dreamrealand for what it advertises itself as being good at doing, it does what it says on the tin
- Drixtanyea, it's java at the end of the day, can't be that bad
- Drixtananyway, I wanted to pitch in this discussion, since it's kind of relevant of what I am doing this week, I wanted some expert voices on that :P - and perhaps take a break of go a little bit...
- dreamrealI know a lot of the quarkus devs and respect those I know. I don't have anything bad to say about it apart from the stridency of advocates... but if that's a quibble, it's not one unique to quarkus AT ALL. And note that the stridency of which I speak is not present here EVEN THOUGH some of the quarkus devs are present themselves. :D
- DrixtanI think we can find this trait in most part of the tech world. That's a nerd thing I believe.
- dreamrealnerds are the worst.
- DrixtanI know right