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Chat Logs
Saturday, February 21, 2026
- blueironically the reason I'm doing it is that the best package manager I've come so far is actually not on linux, but on mac. but brew on linux is a dumpster fire
- bluecome across*
- bluedreamreal: https://github.com/jottinger/bytecode.news/issues/80
- bluethis is kinda cool. when I was working on my irc bot, I had something similar for gh messages
- * jreicher joined #nevet
- bot[jottinger/bytecode.news] New issue #82: ProvenanceState: per-provenance runtime state store - https://github.com/jottinger/bytecode.news/issues/82
- bot[jottinger/bytecode.news] New PR #84: 21 matches! - https://github.com/jottinger/bytecode.news/pull/84
- bot[jottinger/bytecode.news] New PR #83: Adding provenancestate to allow data storage by provenance - https://github.com/jottinger/bytecode.news/pull/83
- * nevet joined #nevet
- * dreamreal!~dreamreal@about/java/dreamreal changed the topic to: This is the channel for the development of the software that runs nevet: https://github.com/jottinger/streampack
- dreamreal21 matches
- nevetA new game of 21 Matches begins! There are 21 matches on the table. Take 1, 2, or 3 matches each turn. Whoever is forced to take the last match loses. Use '21 take <1-3>' to play.
- dreamreal21 take 3
- nevetNow things get interesting. With surgical precision, I take 1. There are 17 matches remaining.
- dreamreal21 take 2
- nevetI see what you're doing there. Without a hint of doubt, I take 2. There are 13 matches remaining.
- dreamreal21 take 1
- nevetOh, I was hoping you'd do that. Decisively, I take 3. There are 9 matches remaining.
- dreamreal21 take 1
- nevetInteresting move. Having consulted my vast intellect, I take 3. There are 5 matches remaining.
- dreamreal21 take 2
- nevetThe plot thickens. Reluctantly, but inevitably, I take 2. The final match awaits you. I believe that makes me the winner.
- dreamreal21 take 2
- nevetError: No game in progress. Use '21 matches' to start a new game.
- dreamreal21 matches
- nevetA new game of 21 Matches begins! There are 21 matches on the table. Take 1, 2, or 3 matches each turn. Whoever is forced to take the last match loses. Use '21 take <1-3>' to play.
- dreamreal21 take 3
- nevetPlaying it safe, I see. After careful consideration, I take 1. There are 17 matches remaining.
- dreamreal21 take 3
- nevetNoted. With a knowing smile, I take 1. There are 13 matches remaining.
- dreamreal21 take 3
- nevetOh, I was hoping you'd do that. Without a hint of doubt, I take 1. There are 9 matches remaining.
- dreamreal21 take 3
- nevetYou play with conviction. Methodically, I take 1. There are 5 matches remaining.
- dreamreal21 take 3
- nevetNoted. With a knowing smile, I take 1. That leaves you with the last match -- I win! Better luck next time.
- dreamrealWoot!
- dreamrealI'm actually kinda proud of that.
- dreamrealthe game itself is nothing, but the fact that it preserves state as a mechanism for any operation... we now have stateful conditions!
- dreamrealAnd now the openapi.json should be stable >:(
- dreamrealI still want to refine the flavor text for 21 some - but the game itself was never the point
- bot[jottinger/bytecode.news] New PR #85: Adds a transformation phase to operations on success - https://github.com/jottinger/bytecode.news/pull/85
- * nevet joined #nevet
- * dreamreal!~dreamreal@about/java/dreamreal changed the topic to: This is the channel for the development of the software that runs nevet: https://github.com/jottinger/streampack
- bot[jottinger/bytecode.news] New PR #86: Adding signal character awareness for egress - https://github.com/jottinger/bytecode.news/pull/86
- * nevet joined #nevet
- * dreamreal!~dreamreal@about/java/dreamreal changed the topic to: This is the channel for the development of the software that runs nevet: https://github.com/jottinger/streampack
- dreamrealokay, there are still some core issues but they're all heavily reliant on the UI
- dreamrealtag ide
- nevetFactoids tagged 'ide': eclipse, ide, idea, and netbeans
- dreamrealsee how the "existing factoids" are now prefixed by the actual signal character :D
- Chronosdreamreal: I forgot to mention that I saw your answer/comment to something I said earlier. I think it caused the lightbulb to illuminate over my head, regarding what nevet is fundamentally about.
- Chronosdreamreal: What AI is it using? If you don't mind saying.
- dreamrealit's using claude. What was the lightbulb?
- dreamreal(It's leveraging spring AI, so if we wanted it to use something else, it's a few lines of configuration.)
- dreamrealSee the 21 matches thing? I'm ridiculously happy about it :D
- dreamreal21 matches
- nevetA new game of 21 Matches begins! There are 21 matches on the table. Take 1, 2, or 3 matches each turn. Whoever is forced to take the last match loses. Use '21 take <1-3>' to play.
- dreamreal21 take 2
- nevetPlaying it safe, I see. With great confidence, I take 2. There are 17 matches remaining.
- dreamreal21 take 2
- nevetI see what you're doing there. Reluctantly, but inevitably, I take 2. There are 13 matches remaining.
- dreamreal21 take 2
- nevetThe plot thickens. With great confidence, I take 2. There are 9 matches remaining.
- dreamreal21 take 2
- nevetI see what you're doing there. After careful consideration, I take 2. There are 5 matches remaining.
- dreamreal21 take 2
- nevetYou play with conviction. Decisively, I take 2. That leaves you with the last match - I win! Better luck next time.
- dreamreal21 matches
- nevetA new game of 21 Matches begins! There are 21 matches on the table. Take 1, 2, or 3 matches each turn. Whoever is forced to take the last match loses. Use '21 take <1-3>' to play.
- dreamreal21 take 3
- nevetAh, just as I expected. After weighing my many options, I take 1. There are 17 matches remaining.
- dreamreal21 take 3
- nevetI see you picked 3. I'd expected you to pick 1. After pretending to think about it, I take 1. There are 13 matches remaining.
- dreamreal^^^ hee hee
- dreamreal21 concede
- nevetYou live to play another day. This time.
- dreamrealand yes, you can play in DM AND in multiple channels, it's tied to the context in which the game is started
- dreamrealbut it means we have context-dependent state, we can actually set up a conversation with the bot now if we write the operations to do it
- Chronosdreamreal: I had asked if you were talking about-generating-URLs-like this using AI, and you explained how you were using it
- dreamrealChronos: NTW, it's saturday, so if you're here and you want to chat, hurry
- dreamrealOh? Yeah, and what was the lightbulb?
- ChronosOh, simply that I had no understanding of the purpose behind nevet before.
- ChronosI knew it could talk to multiple backends. But was not sure fundamentally what it was for.
- ChronosIf I'm even understanding now. But it sounds like using AI and chatrooms on various backends to automagically detect interesting conversation and generate articles for bytecode.news?
- ChronosLet me know if I'm way off base.
- dreamrealoh. Well, yeah. It has a lot of motivations: one, I wanted to do javabot better, two, I wanted to have an information stream that actually wasnt limited to a platform, three, I wanted to play with tech... but the capturing stuff is *fallout*, not design
- dreamrealLike, I didn't create it going "I want people to say stuff and i want to skim it bwahahahaha"
- ChronosOn a different note, I sure hope you don't go with kinabalu's authen suggestions. ;)
- Chronosdreamreal: Ah, I see.
- dreamrealI haven't gone with any of them yet, it's not really my bailiwick so I move very slowly on it
- dreamrealChronos: in 2005, when rss and blogs were EVERYWHERE, I had this idea of an RSS reader that would find "interesting content" from the feeds
- dreamrealbut the tech wasn't there
- ChronosI tend to consider all of this kind of chatter like talking in a public space. I personally have no "expectation of privacy" (in public chatrooms), and wouldn't care if someone scraped interesting conversations, and used AI to generate articles based on those discussions.
- dreamrealit still isn't, really
- dreamrealwell, my thought is that an AI is really good at summarizing contextual information: that's what I used to do at TSS as a day job, too. But if an AI can *draft* something, I can go "you know, this is ridiculous" and discard/rewrite, or edit into shape... and bingo! We have TSS, except smarter and a LOT more thorough (less reliant on MY interests and abilities)
- ChronosHeck, I'm not even against AI scraping all of human knowledge and creation to train models. Largely because I think it's both fair use (or close enough), but also because I'm kind of bullish about AI and don't want well-meaning-but-ultimately-harmful regulations to limit its potential.
- dreamrealI'm neutral about it: I think it's potentially very useful as long as humans don't actually offload thought
- dreamrealwhich is, of course, happening
- Chronosdreamreal: In many ways, I think our industry has gone *too far* in the direction of "use proven, off the shelf solutions," which is why I'm hoping you don't end up going with kinabula's authen suggestions.
- ChronosAnd, the more third parties you rely on, well...
- dreamrealYeah. I mean, I get it, but ... my problem is that I don't know myself how to integrate it. The email thing I know how to do.
- ChronosWhen someone says, roughly, "X has very generous free tiers," and similar, I shudder in horror. Yep, the first hit is free, glorious free.
- dreamrealI mean, if I decided to pull the trigger on that I could have it done today.
- dreamrealyeah, well, he's not wrong, but...
- dreamrealthe thing for me is that the blog service really is an affectation for me, the user auth side is *almost entirely* guesswork on my part.
- dreamrealThe userfacing side of it might as well be in swahili, so I'm trying to move very carefully with it.
- Chronosdreamreal: yep! (to what you said above) if AI can produce rough drafts, then a human can curate, tweak, rewrite, etc. as needed. Just pure AI slop would suck (although I'm sure lots of people will try to 100% automate it, with predictable results.)
- dreamrealYeah, well, the way I envision it, the AI generated stuff goes into a queue and never gets published without a human pulling the trigger
- ChronosHappy to know you're thinking about it rather than jumping straight into "best practices" (gag). ;)
- dreamrealso "generate a summary of xyz.com/foo/bar" creates a draft article (and can do so using *channel content* - like, okay, we're discussing JDBC, here's a great article on it, summarize this gets *the discussion* for context, so if someone says something like "this is interesting because of XYZ" that can be factored in.
- Chronos100%
- Chronos*Perfect* use of AI, in my opinion.
- ChronosMaybe you can use AI to prove to blue that == and .equals() aren't a problem next!
- dreamrealWell, all he has to do to prove that is look at the people who struggle most with it
- dreamrealthe bell curve looks like this: \_____ where the *first flatline* is "people who've used java a week"
- dreamrealBut the problem with TSS was definitely volume: even then, I had to read close to 500 things A DAY
- dreamrealto get three interesting news articles, most of it was utter crap ("I discovered how to use javac: here's the wrong way that I use it VERY confidently")
- dreamrealand now it's worse, since so much of it IS ai slop
- dreamrealmedium is a trashfire, substack not far off
- dreamrealIf I can actually TRAIN a model to detect interesting content from RSS... that'd be awesome, I'd just have nevet scan sources and go "ooo this might be interesting" and feed it through a set of filters until it actually winnows things down
- dreamrealthere's no plan for that yet BUT the system's designed to ENABLE it
- dreamreal*everything* gets provenanced ("it comes from here, from this user if any") and fed into an async event stream, which can generate content (directed at an output provenance, by default the SOURCE provenance, but can also be multiplexed so you can go to MULTIPLE outputs), or error out, or get fed into a bitbucket (no output, not handled))
- dreamrealand there's a wiretap on the operations and the egress so everything gets logged (and sanitized to some degree... still can't help if a user puts !say [mypassword] in the logs)
- dreamreal21 matches
- nevetA new game of 21 Matches begins! There are 21 matches on the table. Take 1, 2, or 3 matches each turn. Whoever is forced to take the last match loses. Use '21 take <1-3>' to play.
- dreamreal21 take 3
- nevetHow delightfully aggressive. With the patience of stone, I take 1. There are 17 matches remaining.
- dreamrealfrom provenance_state: `irc://libera/%23nevet | 21-matches | {"remaining": 17}`
- dreamreal21 take 2
- nevetInteresting move. After a moment's pause, I take 2. There are 13 matches remaining.
- dreamrealnow: irc://libera/%23nevet | 21-matches | {"remaining": 13}
- dreamrealand the way that HAPPENS: https://github.com/jottinger/bytecode.news/blob/4d91abe4d0aecf201d91761b3df4123111df8f7b/operation-21/src/main/kotlin/com/enigmastation/streampack/matches/operation/MatchesOperation.kt#L102
- dreamrealhttps://github.com/jottinger/bytecode.news/blob/main/lib-core/src/main/kotlin/com/enigmastation/streampack/core/service/ProvenanceStateService.kt
- dreamrealThat API will probably get expanded to allow updates in place (so you don't replace the whole map) but eh, that's easy to do when it's needed
- dreamreal21 concede
- nevetThe matches breathe a sigh of relief.
- blueChronos: the criticism is mostly about breaking expectations. The Java model of == being compare-by-identity is too rigid, because it doesn't take into account the fact that for some aspects of reality, identity=contents.
- dreamrealfor primitives it absolutely takes those into account.
- blueNamely, strings, numbers, booleans. This gets into the philosophy, but there is only one "true" value.
- bluethe domain of philosophy*
- dreamrealAnd for objects, it actually works *consistently*. "compare the identity."
- dreamrealobjects, primitives, all of them: == means "compare the identity."
- blueThere is only one "1" value and there is only one "foo" value. It makes no sense for any computer language that is halfway upper language to distinguish between the identity of "foo" and its contents.
- bluedreamreal: you're not listening
- blueI *KNOW* how java works: I'm CRITICISING the design decision here
- dreamrealBut objects have *reference* as identity, so equals() comes into play as a way to say "now compare *not only identity* - which is optional for objects - but value"
- dreamrealIt's a valid design decision
- dreamrealYou may not like it, it's valid
- blueIt's an opinion, it's not valid or invalid, but to my taste -- and to the chagrin of MANY people, extremely dumb
- nevetIt's an opinion, it's not valid or invalid, but to my taste now has karma of -1.
- dreamrealmapOf("foo" to "bar", "baz" to "quux") != mapOf("foo" to "bar", "baz" to "quux")
- dreamrealthe chagrin lasts for a day or two, though
- bluethat's not a valid comparison: maps are mutable; strings aren't
- dreamrealmapOf() yeilds an immutable map :D
- Chronosdreamreal: TSS?
- bluetheserverside
- dreamrealChronos: theserverside.com
- ChronosTypo for RSS?
- bluenevet's precursor
- dreamrealno
- dreamrealnevet's precursor is purl
- blueI don't know what purl is
- dreamrealbytecode.news as a site is based on what theserverside was intended to be
- dreamrealpurl is one of the early infobots
- bluepurl sounds like a scottish guy trying to say 'perl' :P
- dreamrealwritten in perl, go figure
- dreamrealblue: efnet #perl
- blueoh man. I HATED perl, I really did
- dreamrealpurl may still be running there, I'm not on efnet any more
- blueI found the syntax SO confusing
- dreamrealI'm sure you did :D
- bluethose @, they killed me
- dreamrealblessed types were always bolted on and felt like it
- bluedreamreal, what's your take on ruby?
- Chronosblue: I think it could be argued that, in Java, == should compare object equality, rather than reference equality. And that reference equality should be something else.
- dreamrealit's a language, which is ACTUALLY what I feel about most languages
- dreamrealthere are very few languages that I actively dislike: storyserver's tcl is one such example, and it's limited TO storyserver's impl
- blueChronos: yes. but also, in an ideal world, new Long(1) == new Long(1) should yield true: because there is no scenario where two `new Long(1)` will have a different meaning
- dreamrealthere are some ecosystems I can't stand: scala is a language I won't touch because of the people who use it
- bluethis is how I feel about rust, dreamreal
- dreamrealblue: valhalla's likely to change that
- Chronosdreamreal: Ah, I've never seen theserverside.com before, thanks.
- bluerust is like the entire democrat party in a programming language
- dreamrealChronos: I was the editor for TSS in 2005-2007. It was what launched jboss and spring, really
- * dreamreal was a democrat in the distant past, thanks
- blueemphasis on *distant past*
- * dreamreal shrugs. I was a republican in the past, too.
- blueright after they stopped owning slaves and right before they started being totally crazy
- blue:P
- dreamrealnah, I abandoned the democrats in 1979
- blue(which was like, 5 minutes)
- blueChronos: fyi, dreamreal is the best java developer in the universe that *I* know
- * Chronos spits on both republicans and democrats, toxic shitbags, all of them.
- dreamrealChronos: also: blue isn't in #java and knows few of them there
- dreamrealblue: FTR there are better java coders than me *in #nevet*
- bluemaybe. I don't *know* them
- dreamrealChronos: yeah, I was registered republican a few years ago because I couldn't handle the democrats but lost the ability to wave any flags for party
- blueI was sure to correctly disclaim my sentence, as you may notice
- Chronosblue: I'm an average developer. Realizing this has been hugely beneficial.
- dreamrealscrew 'em all, I'm registered independent now, thankfully my state has open primaries so I get to choose a primary to vote in
- dreamrealblue: I know, I even used the clarification
- dreamrealI'm an average developer, too
- dreamrealI'm not too bad as an architect, but as a developer, meh
- blueChronos: I'm a lousy developer. Actually, I don't even have a metric to assess myself, which makes me believe I'm probably lousy, because most developers are lousy
- Chronosdreamreal: Both parties have gone *so* far off the rails, it makes me want to weep for our country.
- dreamrealChronos: Our education system has failed everyone. That's W's fault, and the democrats' for weaponizing it
- Chronosblue: Are you a software engineer at work?
- blueChronos: yes!
- dreamrealplenty of blame to go around. But the MAIN thing I wish they'd do is, besides, like prioritizing schools, return "civics" to the curriculum
- Chronosdreamreal: yep. I agree.
- dreamreallike, as a mandatory "you gotta have this credit to graduate"
- Chronosblue: What technologies do you work with?
- blueChronos: java and javascript
- Chronosdreamreal: That's a great idea.
- dreamrealif you don't understand how our government works or is supposed to work, you don't get the cert
- Chronosblue: Ah, fellow blue collar Java scum. Excellent.
- ChronosI'm a Java prostitute, too. <3
- dreamrealcan't tell you not to vote, but I'm happy to make it harder on you until you actually learn what america is about
- blueChronos: yes!
- bluedreamreal: america's, and the west's current most urgent issue, is that everyone is focussed on rights and no one is focussed on duties
- Chronosdreamreal: yep. Civics is critically important to a functioning democracy, and Americans are woefully uneducated in that subject.
- dreamrealI'm kotlin, python, java, nodejs (no user-facing crap HERE!), go, zsh
- blue50% of being a citizen is duty, but everyone thinks is 100% rights
- bluethe ancient spartans and athenians got this, nearly everyone in history got it except modern people who think it's all rights
- dreamrealI *know* a ton of languages: scala, perl, cobol, louis/ii, pascal, ruby, rust, etc
- Chronosdreamreal: Why didn't you choose Go for nevet?
- dreamrealChronos: ew
- dreamrealdynamics, actually
- blueTOLD YA HE HATES go
- blueChronos: but know that I'm not happy about it. I'm waiting for the day I can quit myself and focus 100% on my projects
- dreamrealnevet's built around EAI, EAI patterns in Go are bolted on
- dreamrealGo is *great* for one-shot "oh god just cram it out the door" projects
- blueI don't particularly like java as a language, and the way we do it at work is dumb, and I don't really like the sloopy way we do javascript, either
- ChronosIn my *opinion*, the problem with democrats if they're democrats first, and Americans second. And, also in my *opinion*, the problem with republicans is they're republicans first, and Americans second.
- dreamrealnevet actually has an LLM proxy written in go, in a prior version
- blueChronos: good observation
- Chronosdreamreal: Fair enough (re: Go). :)
- dreamrealChronos: no lie there. My problem with the democrats goes further, though: they're purity-driven and goldfish besides
- dreamrealthey are unable to hold more than one concept in their head at a time: they're not UNIQUE in this but it's really bad there because of postmodern infection
- bluedreamreal: they're also deeply racist. Remember Biden telling a black man he's not black if he doesn't vote for him?
- blueit's in their genes, they can't help it
- dreamrealblue: they're not unique in that, though: it's just a virulent racism that's harder to fight, because you can't just illustrate the problem
- Chronosdreamreal: yep. Democrats are *so* purity-driven that they seem to think winning a battle and losing the war is an appropriate outcome, because acting any other way would be immoral.
- blueI think america would indeed be better off if it got completely rid of the concept of race
- dreamrealmost racists are racist in *general* but fail to be racist in direct contact
- dreamrealI think racism is great! ... we just keep forgetting that skin color != race
- blueI never saw a black man and thought "wow, that man's race is black! I gotta somehow adapt my behaviour!"
- dreamrealI think marrying outside your race is THE WORST. Apart from, I guess, marrying kids. But you should NEVER EVER marry outside your race.
- dreamrealYou want to marry a horse? OMG NO
- ChronosDemocrats badly failed by deciding that racism should be used to fix racism.
- blueexactly
- dreamrealYou want to marry a woman with black skin where yours is white? ... okay, so what? Both of you are human, no race problems.
- bluedreamreal: exactly; as far as I'm concernedm humans have no races
- blueI mostly parse the word 'race' as you just did: 'species'
- ChronosI'm so happy we can all agree that modern republicans and modern democrats *suck*. :)
- dreamrealChronos: https://merkavah.substack.com/p/goldfish-come-in-many-colors
- blueI think dog races is ok by convention; by that's a universal convention that carries no additional meaning
- blues/by/but/
- dreamrealdogs don't have races, they have BREEDS
- blueyes but they're also commonly called races
- dreamrealonly by idiots!
- * dreamreal runs
- blueha
- ChronosBoth democrats and republicans hate me, because I hold these two opinions at the same time: (1) deportations of non-U.S. citizens here without approval is appropriate, and our borders should be secure, and (2) the way ICE and the administration is handling the deportations is abominable.
- dreamrealChronos: you're not unique in that
- ChronosAh, it feels so good to be hated by everyone, it keeps me warm during these cold Minnesota winters.
- dreamrealI 100% support the mission of ICE while thinking that they, uh, may want to revise strategy
- dreamrealbut then again, I think the reason their strategy sucks is because MN authorities defy the law
- blueI mean, however you wanna see it, deporting >10 millions is NOT going to be a walk in the park; it's going to involve some rough stuff
- blueit is still most important to deport every and each illegal alien
- dreamrealeh
- Chronos"Same cognitive limitation, different tribal triggers." — ha!, love it!
- bluethey may then get into the queue and apply to enter the country legally
- dreamrealI think there're legit exceptions
- bluedreamreal: do you make exceptions for other crimes?
- dreamrealChronos: that guy's pretty based
- dreamrealblue: sure. Don't you? Aren't you jewish?
- bluewell generally if someone steals something, it's not something I'm going to condone. he needs to return the stolen good and if he is in dire need, I WILL help. but not by fiat!
- dreamrealOkay. Man steals bread to survive. Is guilty of a crime, theft. yet pikuach nefesh applies: he's still guilty, but we extend mercy *because*, right?
- Chronosdreamreal: (I'm a Minnesotan) — There is a small, but *outrageously loud*, minority of Minnesotans that believe in such nonsense as "borders are racist," and other such nonsense. Somehow, they got an outsized influence in Minnesota government.
- dreamrealChronos: not unique to MN, unfortunately.
- ChronosWe also have a small, but *outrageously loud*, minority of people that believe nonsense like "climate change in a democratic hoax," and other such nonsense.
- bluedreamreal: yes. but he will need to compensate for it, in SOME way. don't you agree? he needs to survive, yes, and once he's survived and strong: he needs to work to pay back, in SOME way
- bluethe reason we can't ever condone crime is that we break the world by doing that, it's very opposite of tikkun olam
- bluewe signal to the world that it's ok
- dreamrealblue: sure. And I'd be fine with an illegal immigrant who has managed to GET AWAY with being illegal for an arbitrary period - let's say he's been here 17 years, kept his nose clean, exemplary resident otherwise - going before a judge, where THAT judge says to THAT immigrant: wow you got one on us, you're illegal: here's mercy, NOW GET LEGAL NOW with some running room. Or else.
- dreamrealIf it's EVERY illegal immigrant? Eh, I dunno. But on an individual basis, where actual decisions are made on that level... i'd be okay.
- bluedreamreal: what will be your words to someone who has been int he queue for 17 years (say, on green card lottery), and never got that 'seat' taken by the illegal?
- dreamrealIf it's every immigrant we're ignoring the law. If it's Paco at the Taco Stand for $reasons, that's grace and mercy.
- dreamrealblue: life isn't fair.
- dreamrealSucks to be you, they harmed you, you have a right to resent them.
- bluesure. that's why the illegal who has been illegal for 17 years, needs at the very least to *pay* a fine to compensate for the seat he's taken away from a legal
- dreamrealThe queue itself is arbitrary; maybe that guy who's been in the queue for 17 years gets the SAME mercy: "oh, crap, paco at the taco stand took your seat, he owes you"
- dreamrealLaw in the round works when it's applied individually
- dreamrealChronos: see how blue-coded I am. :D
- ChronosThis probably makes me racist: I believe some immigrants have cultures that are objectively bad and allowing them in American is harmful to America and Americans.
- Chronosdreamreal: Heh!
- blueChronos: yes, 100%
- dreamrealChronos: I don't think that's a racist position
- blueit doesn't make you racist though
- dreamrealI think anyone here who says "death to america" should be escorted to whatever eden they imagine
- dreamrealjust not this one
- ChronosAt the same time, I'm starting to worry about a lot of the right-leaning people here in Minnesota. They're becoming more bold with opinions like Holocaust denial and that Jews are the root of all of America's problems.
- Chronosdreamreal: The extreme left has redefined racism *so* widely that everything they don't like is racist now.
- dreamrealI'd LOVE it if Jews were actually the root of america's problems! That'd be easy to solve!
- ChronosErr, opinions they don't like.
- blueChronos: well, incidentally, if there's some one thing the crazy right and the crazy left agree on, is jews=bad
- dreamrealChronos: yeah, the purity tests
- Chronosdreamreal: yep. Here in Minnesota, *all* left/liberal/democrat stuff is because "Jews are behind it" (according to a growing number of people that lean right). It frightens me.
- dreamrealChronos: as a Jew, it concerns me, too... but my view of time is apparently relatively rare. I see such things as "oh, look, it's Tuesday... or the 21st century."
- dreamreal"oh no a pogram" gets "... another one?"
- Chronosblue: Yikes, you know, that's true.
- bluethe problem is also that people don't have the intellectual honesty/integrity to allow them to get into debates like, why so many ashkenazi jews won nobel prizes, far above their share in the world's population. or why east africans make the best marathon runners
- Chronosblue: *EXACTLY*.
- dreamrealhuh, you know, tucker carlson and candace owens are faliing that redemption mechanic in merkavah's post lately themselves
- dreamrealfailing
- bluewell tucker really disappointed me, dreamreal. I used to like this guy, now he's just becoming an outright antisemite
- dreamrealI haven't cared for him for a long, long time
- Chronos(It is *so* refreshing to talk with *reasonable* people without crazy cult-level beliefs.)
- Chronos(I was beginning to think I was totally alone.)
- dreamrealnot sure how much I EVER cared for him: I always saw him as a Sean Hannity-lite, and I never really cared for Hannity either
- blueI noticed it at kirk's wake with his "bunch of guys eating hummus in a backroom" (which is btw, historically inaccurate: hummus was NOT a jewish dish during 0 BC)
- dreamrealat least he was on a show with Colmes and that helped balance him some
- blueChronos: yes, it is refreshing
- dreamrealgotta admit though, good hummus is awesome
- ChronosNow if only we had candidates with a reasonable chance to win to vote for. ;)
- dreamrealChronos: right?
- bluethis is something I uniquely appreciate about dreamreal: you can have the fiercest debates with him, and he doesn't antagonise you or tries to call you labels
- ChronosI don't want another Biden. I don't want another Trump. Etc.
- dreamrealI hate voting, not because of the act, but because the people who have a chance are so ridiculous
- dreamrealblue: you're absolutely right, you fucking moron
- dreamrealChronos: yeah, I will never forgive the democrats for the biden era
- bluethere's a palpable tension in politics: you *need* to steward society, but also the worst kind of people go into it
- dreamrealI will never willingly vote democrat, ever. I don't prefer the republicans, EXCEPT in contrast to the democrats.
- blueyou *need* it*
- blueall the good people I can think of, vehently stay OUT of politics
- bluethat's the real problem there
- bluethey're too smart for that, and that leaves the arena for the worst
- bluevehemently*
- dreamrealMy voting process is "who's I or L? Do they REALLY suck? They do? Crap. Does the R suck too? Write-in it is."
- Chronosdreamreal: I'm *still* of the opinion that in 2024, it was more that the Democrats lost, than the Republicans won. Biden and his administration were close to universally unpopular.
- dreamrealI'm still pissed that Trump won in 2016
- ChronosAnd Kamala could only promise "more of the same."
- dreamrealChronos: they screwed themselves over, badly. But who would have been a good D candidate?
- blueI could actually somewhat get around people like andrew yang, but his party crushed him
- dreamrealharris was one of the people with her hands up biden's butt, pulling the strings
- dreamrealI could see Yang, maybe
- dreamrealbut he was never significant
- bluebut seriously: can anyone conjure up a name of someone in current american politics who is of any worth, at all?
- dreamrealAnyway, it IS shabbat and the afternoon's cranking up
- blueI only see idiots and fools
- dreamrealblue: Cruz and Rubio are okay
- dreamrealRubio > Cruz IMO
- bluedreamreal: yeah, maybe rubio
- Chronosblue: I like that Talarico guy ;)
- dreamrealI respect Cruz but he's a little too tribal
- Chronos(James Talarico)
- ChronosA Christian that actually understands why Christian Nationalism is a very bad idea. I'm not sure what his other policies are, but at least he's insightful on the subject of Christian Nationalism.
- dreamrealI don't know enough about him to judge
- dreamrealand I'm being called away
- dreamrealy'all have a good afternoon/evening/morning/whatever
- Chronos/o
- Chronos(oops)
- ChronosBye dreamreal
- dreamrealChronos: before I get away: nevet and go have some inconsistent design mantras. an operation in nevet is literally class FooOperation implements Operation - it's a little more complicated than that, because there are specifications for operations, but that's basically all that's involved. Implement the requirement, slap it in classpath, DONE.
- dreamrealAnd go doesn't really have that. Could you DO it? Yeah, you can have registration hooks and all that, but ... instead, nevet discovers what it's supposed to be at runtime and conforms to that shape, and that's how it SHOULD be, IMO.
- dreamrealBut that's how SERVICES work, that's how operations work, that's how transformations work: you provide them, they get applied consistently by design and decision. There's not a lot of configuration apart from "how do we provide external data like API keys such that services that need them have access?"
- dreamrealIt's not impossible with ANY language; I could have used PHP! But in this case, Spring+Java was well-suited for it.
- dreamrealThe actual ORIGINAL design was with OSGi, but... um, yeah.
- dreamreal(That comes from 2006: I wrote an article on OSGi that was meant to serve as the very early design, using the whiteboard pattern for dispatch to operations: imagine nevet running *quite literally* as an eclipse plugin.)
- dreamrealNow, it's sort of using the same kind of dispatch mechanism, except in a bound loop on a channel consumer.
- dreamrealand NOW I'm off. :D
- blue+1
- * PyR3X joined #nevet