Chat Logs

  1. * phaleth joined #primate
  2. phalethhttps://primate.run/blog/typescript-monorepos-with-proby
  3. * phaleth joined #primate
  4. * phaleth joined #primate
  5. bluephaleth: yes!
  6. blueproby is not outclassing vitest / jest
  7. blueis now*
  8. phalethit's cool that node supports ts
  9. blueit's been so for a while with a flag, but they deflagged in 24 and 23 (backported)
  10. bluephaleth: if you don't mind, could you post the rcompat blog post to HN?
  11. phalethsome nice ideas about server side TS are also here https://github.com/elixir-volt/quickbeam/blob/master/README.md
  12. phalethI can try
  13. bluecool
  14. blueooh, zig
  15. bluephaleth: https://github.com/elixir-volt/quickbeam/tree/master/priv/c_src
  16. blueit uses quickjs :P
  17. blueI should known by the name...
  18. phalethyeah, take a look at the bottom of that readme how it handles npm packages
  19. blueshould have*
  20. blueoh cool
  21. bluemaybe we should add erlang/elixir support to primate's backend
  22. blueit would be somewhat the same as that
  23. phalethupvote https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47636948
  24. nevetTesting TS monorepos without a build step with rcompat and proby | Hacker News
  25. blueCool!
  26. phalethyeah, well, the thing about that experiment is that there are two runtimes needed to run the app
  27. phalethQJS might be small
  28. blueyup
  29. blueanyway, the genius thing about this new proby nonsense is that it reuses the customConditions in your tsconfig.json
  30. blueI'd been using those to do jump-to-live-source forever, otherwise you jump to the compiled js
  31. bluephaleth: the redeployment loop on primate website is insane
  32. bluearound 3s
  33. bluegit pull && npm run build && systemctl restart primate-web
  34. blueI have never seen anything like this in the wild
  35. blueobviously in real conditions you'd do ab it more, like pnpm install and potentially pnpm build for the dependents, but with a caching enabled, that'd be still 3s unless any package changed / dep updated
  36. phalethyeah, but that deployment is so hacky
  37. blueit's really straightforward. get the git repo, install deps, build necessary packages, build app, run
  38. blueif you got most of those on a hot path, a redeployment boils down to the build app step which is 2-3s
  39. blueso if I only change website content, redeployment is lightning fast
  40. blueif I change packages that apps/website depends on, it might be a bit longer
  41. bluebtw if we use bun to run, we could skip the package build step entirely
  42. bluebun can run ts from node_modules. it's only node that's retarded
  43. phalethyeah, but bun is leaking memory
  44. blueso yeah friggin' sucks
  45. bluebun should really stabilise
  46. blueinstead of putting more effort into nonsense optimisations
  47. phalethheh, building standalone bundle is fine and moving it to server where there is only the JS runtime is also a better idea
  48. blueoh yeah let's optimise Response(null) to be a million times faster
  49. blueyeah, and primate already supports that
  50. blueif the node devs weren't such idiots and agreed to run ts in node_modules, all of this wouldn't be even needed
  51. blueyou'd publish ts to npm, done
  52. blueI like it how the argumentation was "but you then don't know which ts version". that's not an argument, node strips types
  53. phalethbun's only goal was to win the benchmark that the guy on youtube keeps doing, and bun won that benchmark, usability is not what bun is concerned about
  54. bluethat friggin' sucks
  55. phalethv8 should support TS, makes no sense to strip types
  56. blueso I was thinking that the JS parser I'm writing for flog, it should just support TS natively
  57. blueso yeah, what you're saying for v8 essentially
  58. bluewhat we really need though is a new language, like valuescript
  59. bluethat if I just function foo(a: string): string, that nonsense is actually guaranteed in runtime instead of being stripped away
  60. blueif I just do*
  61. bluewhich is kinda funny, because javascript already maintains this information. it has a type system otherwise typeof wouldn't work in runtime
  62. bluephaleth: looking good for primate 0.37 today
  63. blueeaster primate :)
  64. bluenot quite the bunny you'd expect, but close enough
  65. phalethok, hopefully that release contains something usable for repopack
  66. blueyes, the db migrations, the appfacade#env
  67. bluethe revised modules are also a boon
  68. bluein short, all ofit
  69. phalethcool
  70. bluewelp, release is ready
  71. blueI'm gonna head out to the store and cut it when I'm back
  72. chovyhow many stars on gh are you guys up to now?
  73. chovyi would love for this to be successful and topple everyone else
  74. chovybut i didn't see that happening.
  75. dreamrealblue: just published a *different* thing on BCN - I'm holding the primate post for Monday. Today's post is about something that's a bit crap IMO, and I was using it to test something in the rendering.
  76. dreamrealprimate's gonna get front billing monday morning.
  77. dreamrealunless something unusual happens, I suppose, but that's the PLAN.
  78. phalethchovy: claude code CLI published it's source maps recently and so nowadays people are busy starring all those reconstructed github repos called claw code or whatever and that's where all all the github stars go
  79. phalethmyself I do not understand why would a CLI need source maps in the first place, but I guess it's always good when code gets leaked
  80. dreamrealI don't think so.
  81. phalethwell at least everyone can see how terrible that cli is
  82. chovydreamreal: "Front Billing" wdym?
  83. chovyphaleth: is their code bad??? lol
  84. chovyfucking enterprise closed source garbage
  85. phalethyeah, most likely
  86. dreamrealWhat do you mean? I'm not sure what that response is saying.
  87. dreamrealI mean, I respect work product: if you worked on something and *sent me your code*, awesome. If you worked on something and asked me to use it and it worked well... and you didn't send me the code? I'm not going to go grasping for it. It's YOURS.
  88. dreamrealClaude's code is THEIRS. How is this any different?
  89. chovynot sure what you're getting at dreamreal
  90. chovyi have been working in silicon valley for 30 years as an engineer and ALL corporate codebases are a fucking disaster.
  91. chovyat least with foss you know its clean
  92. dreamrealchovy: it's their code. What does its state matter? I've been in the industry for a minute, too.
  93. dreamrealReally?
  94. dreamrealI mean, I've seen a lot of FOSS...
  95. chovyat chegg we had a User.js file that was 100k lines of code no modules
  96. chovysorry no that was fuckign IBM lol
  97. chovywe rewrite that shit after 1 year
  98. chovyired
  99. dreamrealI mean... so?
  100. chovywe rewrite that shit after 1 year of being acquired
  101. dreamrealThis is a matter of ownership and ethics.
  102. chovywho is goinna read a 100k file?
  103. dreamrealDunno! Does it matter?
  104. dreamrealAn AI probably would, and man, that'd be fun
  105. dreamrealIf something is MINE, what right do you have to it unless I give it to you?
  106. chovyi hear what you're saying but in reality most code is just fucking spaghetti. not saying i'm any beteter but i try not to go over 100 lines in a file
  107. dreamrealI mean... who cares?
  108. dreamrealThat's not bad advice (to keep files short) but ... so what? What does that have to do with claude?
  109. bluechovy: 280ish, I believe
  110. bluechovy: in 2026, we're *still* the only framework that supports js as a first-class citizen
  111. bluedreamreal: primate 0.37 is coming out today. if you want to publish a story, THAT is way more important than the rcompat thingy
  112. bluealso it's Easter Primate
  113. dreamrealreleasing on SATURDAY? fsck, that IS something you need to write
  114. chovydreamreal: nothing. now. ai is far better than the people i ever worked with
  115. bluedreamreal: not ANY Saturday. EASTER Saturday!
  116. dreamreal... I feel like we're having different conversations, chovy
  117. dreamrealblue: If you're trying to minimize impressions, that's a good way to do it :D even my programming-obsessed friends are taking today off, it's morons like me who're still paying attention
  118. dreamrealeaster saturday isn't relevant for me, but shabbat is and even so, here I am :D
  119. bluedreamreal: I don't care about that, and you know that
  120. blueI'm not a marketing guy, not in this life, nor will I ever become, and I'm not gonna try, if the release is done I'm gonna release it
  121. dreamrealI do, but it's worth making the decision deliberately. I'd *love* to have primate releases announced on BCN, for what it's worth
  122. dreamrealif it's today, today it is.
  123. bluethere are people waiting for features, I'm not gonna block them for marketing purposes
  124. dreamrealSo what does 0.37 add? the rcompat stuff I already queued for monday, I guess, but ...
  125. * nevet joined #primate
  126. * blue!~blue@user/blue changed the topic to: https://primate.run | this channel is mirrored to the Primate discord, channel #irc
  127. bluedreamreal: https://primate.run/blog/primate-037
  128. nevetPrimate — Primate 0.37: Revised modules, database migrations, and typed environment access
  129. dreamrealDo you support oracle or db2?
  130. blueno, since I don't know how to run them myself
  131. blueI'd like to support oracle, but for that I'd need to setup an oracle db locally
  132. dreamreal*nod* there are docker containers - derby is an implementation of db2 in java, not sure how good oracledb support would be. The PK stuff - it sounds like strings ARE NOT valid primary keys any more?
  133. blueyes
  134. bluewell it's still strings. it's just uuid strings
  135. dreamrealSo if I WANTED a pk of "dreamreal" it'd have to be a UUID with a unique index on a name field?
  136. dreamrealFWIW: container-registry.oracle.com/database/free:latest
  137. blueprobably, yes. it just means that key.primary and key.foreign won't allow you to use p.string
  138. bluenot using uuid means a can of worms of "how do I generate new pks" or "user has to do it manually". it could be a use case, but not one I find particularly attractive unless convinced otherwise
  139. dreamrealsure, it's an opinionated thing
  140. skillnews12Primate 0.37: Revised modules, database migrations, and typed environment access - https://primate.run/blog/primate-037
  141. nevetPrimate — Primate 0.37: Revised modules, database migrations, and typed environment access
  142. blueif key.{primary,foreign} were ever to support to p.string again, it'd have to come with a generation strategy
  143. dreamrealOh, THAT's why nevet took forever! It wasn't quoting US, it was quoting skillnews!
  144. blueso, key.primary(p.string, () => { /* return unique new string */ });
  145. bluethat being said, nothing stops you from using p.string without key.primary and setting the index in the db manually
  146. blueyou just don't participate in orm goodness in that world
  147. blueor well, pk-based orm goodness
  148. dreamrealDo you want to see what I drafted before I publish? I have thoughts, and you might not like them, but it's your project.
  149. dreamreal(and there's time: I still don't want to publish this TODAY.)
  150. dreamrealI am going to put it on social media, I think, and I'm not goingto say "two days ago I published..."
  151. bluerelease song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ci_h4nJRga0
  152. nevetYouTube: The Diary Of Jane | Breaking Benjamin - Topic
  153. skillbot04,01► 14,01YouTube :: The Diary Of Jane
  154. bluedreamreal: ya?
  155. dreamrealhold on, revising
  156. dreamrealI tell you what, I'm gonna be low-key pissed if BCN never takes off :D
  157. bluewhy shouldn't it
  158. dreamrealmarketing, actual appeal, people don't read
  159. blueI have mostly stopped caring about what people think
  160. dreamrealmonetization is also a factor: it's a passion project for now, but passion only carries so much
  161. dreamrealif I'm the only one rowing the boat, it ain't gonna go far
  162. dreamrealI've had a few people say "ooo that'd be great to be published there" and when I say "yeah, write it up" it's crickets
  163. bluewell, people suck
  164. blueI've been the only one rowing the boat on primate for like 2 years and it's only got a handful of stars on gh, I recently stopped caring
  165. dreamrealI hear you (one of those stars is mine, for the record)
  166. dreamrealokay, you on google docs or anything like that?
  167. blueyes, potentially
  168. chovydreamreal: i guess so...idk
  169. chovythought we were just talking
  170. chovynot debating
  171. chovyanyway i trust oss more
  172. dreamrealchovy: we were, I just don't think we were talking about the same things
  173. bluechovy, he just means you're talking past each other
  174. chovythat's the main reason i use it over anything proprietary
  175. bluechovy: it's not the main reason, it's the master reason!
  176. blue:P
  177. chovyi like the foss+cloud model
  178. dreamrealblue: check DM
  179. dreamrealI do too but I also like to eat and have a roof over my head
  180. dreamrealIt's a decision I make deliberately to use open source as a distribution model, or CC-by-SA
  181. dreamrealbut the thing is: if I lost my day job, BCN goes away.
  182. dreamrealBecause if I were to go to a "hey, I gotta eat" model for it, nobody would pay for it REGARDLESS of value: they'd say "aw man, I sure wish someone would pay the author to create such great stuff" without ever once thinking "hey, why didn't *I* pay the author to create such great stuff"
  183. dreamrealblue: that article draft is NOT formatted for google docs, obviously
  184. blueya
  185. dreamrealediting that doc isn't going to help me much, but comments sure would since they'd give me a delta to work with
  186. dreamrealchovy: https://bytecode.news/posts/2026/04/layoffs-at-oracle
  187. bluedreamreal: ACK, good write-up
  188. blueI don't really have any comments, it's pretty much the gist of the release, the evaluation is also par for the course
  189. dreamrealOkay, cool. It's going to get pride of place on monday, I think.
  190. blueEaster Monday? :P
  191. dreamrealIs that a thing?
  192. dreamrealBut yes
  193. dreamrealpeople here work on monday after easter, it's not that kind of holiday
  194. dreamreallater
  195. blueso in germany, easter friday to monday are typically free
  196. dreamrealshould i wait until tue?
  197. blueno
  198. blueif easter monday ain't a thing in the us, then publish
  199. blueactually publish it whenver you want
  200. blueI'd publish it now :P
  201. bot[Primate Blog] Primate 0.37: Revised modules, database migrations, and typed environment access - https://primate.run/blog/primate-037
  202. dreamrealhttps://bytecode.news/posts/2026/04/primate-0-37-migrations-typed-env-and-a-cleaner-module-api
  203. bluedreamreal: awesome!
  204. dreamrealgave me a chance to flesh out a lot of factoids, too
  205. bluehttps://x.com/primate_run/status/2040447712659722314
  206. bluehttps://tboteproject.com/systemdfindings/
  207. nevetsystemd birthDate Merge: Corporate Filings, Conflicts of Interest, and Governance Failure
  208. bluethis is pretty crazy
  209. onosendiblue: have you tried liquid dnb? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s17e_5zK21s
  210. nevetYouTube: #304 KushSessions (Liquid Drum & Bass Mix) | KushSessions
  211. skillbot04,01► 14,01YouTube :: #304 KushSessions (Liquid Drum & Bass Mix)
  212. blueonosendi: I haven't!
  213. bluetrying now
  214. bluenot bad
  215. chovyso this is why i switched from primate to next/react i can build any app with any interface on any platform using that stack. i don't think you can do web extensions with primate
  216. chovyor mobile apps
  217. chovyor desktops or clis
  218. bluechovy: what's web extensions?
  219. blueand of course you can do that with primate. next isn't doing anything in particular that makes it mobile or deskopt ready
  220. blueyou're probably using sometihng else like react native or so
  221. chovyyou don't uswe next on mobile or web extensions
  222. chovyjust react
  223. chovyi use electroin for desktop
  224. chovyyes react native
  225. chovyfor mobile
  226. chovyi can build tuis with react now lol
  227. chovythat shit is everywhere!!
  228. chovyclaude won't let you work more than 12 hours at time before they temp ban you
  229. chovyhow you gonna become a billionaire working 12 hours a day?
  230. blueI thought you hated next chovy
  231. bluewhy are people using that nonsense, it's so terrible
  232. bluelike even if you don't use primate, there are *better* alternatives