Community
Chat Logs
Wednesday, October 7, 2026
- bluelioloc: hey!
- bluehttps://repopack.com/project/primate/tasks/153
- nevetRepopack · Sign in
- bluecheck out that, will be part of 0.43
- bluedreamreal: primate 0.42.1 is out, including updates to @primate/core and @primate/marko. It is a security-hardening and stability release, I recommend updating
- dreamrealgah, sorry, underway
- bluewell, you don't need to update *now*
- blueit's just a general info
- dreamrealI'm bad about enduring old versions when I know a fix is out there
- dreamreal... another reason to vastly dislike windows
- blueyou know, there's a tension between having a lockfile, and receiving updates. I strive to try to diffuse this tension in some form with repopack, with trusted publishing (npm is also going in that direction), but the fact of the matter is that lockfile prevent you from receiving updates simply by redeploying a service
- bluelockiles*
- bluewhich somewhat defeats the purpose of patch updates, as per npm policy
- bluenpm is generally very problematic from a security point of view, but their solutions never feel like they've thought them through. they are most reactive, much less proactive
- blues/but/and/
- dreamrealTrying to update the nextjs repo now, which is always a drag. The dependency audit for nextjs is great fun: "this is a mandatory update but BTW nothing will work if you apply it"
- dreamrealgee, I wonder why I agonized over switching to something different for all of 15 ninutes.
- bluenextjs is just not worth it
- blueI sent you the video by lioloc where he compares them
- bluenextjs is very, very heavy
- bluelioloc: so cool, your branch can start a desktop app with gtk 4 on linux. but a revision was still requested
- liolocwill take a look
- bluelioloc: btw https://primate.run/blog/primate-042#production-diagnostics
- nevetPrimate — Primate 0.42: Virtual route groups, structured forms and production diagnostics
- bluethis was missing from the original blog post
- blueit's kinda nice :)
- liolocneat
- liolocvery cool!
- bluewe're gonna use it on repopack.com, that when an error 5xx is generated, we report it automatically
- bluewe might show the user an id for reference
- liolocwhat a great idea
- lioloci'll have to try it myself
- blueyup
- bluedreamreal: whilst reviewing primate:
- blue"Error: cyber_policy: This content was flagged for possible cybersecurity risk. If this seems wrong, try rephrasing your request. If you’re doing authorized security work that requires more cyber permissive safeguards, apply for Daybreak access via https://platform.openai.com/settings/organization/status-and-access before retrying."
- bluegreat, now I can't even review my own OSS code
- blueidiots
- dreamrealblame aggressive demands by the US government, and idiots trying to use AI to break others' code maliciously
- dreamrealSorry, man
- dreamrealhits me too, and that's actually MY INDUSTRY - I have access to models that do not have those safeguards but I literally have to be in a military base to use them
- dreamrealand thus I do not use them
- blueand the annoying thing is that they now flagged the entire session. which is OK, I can start a new one and rp is pretty good at bootstrapping, but yeah
- dreamrealoh, that reminds me: do you want #primate's logs to be public as well?
- blueyes, it's ok
- bluethanks for asking
- dreamrealI actually need to sanitize the logs some
- bluebut I am bound by these network's policies to advertise that, btw
- blue(as are you, if you have it on any of your channels, btw; be advised)
- bluebest is to put it in the topic, which I will do now
- dreamrealhmm, hat might be an interesting feature: "here's the logs, filter for potentially insecure/illegal content and sanitize profanity"
- bluedreamreal: https://bytecode.news/logs?provenance=irc%3A%2F%2Flibera%2F%2523primate
- nevet#primate, October 7, 2026
- blueis this the shortest url I can get?
- blueit is rather ugly, I must confess
- dreamrealYES, darn it!
- blueok
- dreamrealit is ugly, yes, because provenances are ugly
- dreamrealhmm
- bluenicer: bytecode.news/logs/irc/libera/primate
- blueyou can map this with a [...].ts route in primate
- blueand yes, I know there are # and ## channels, and that is an abomination to map to a url, where # means the hash/anchor
- dreamrealyeah, primate's not the only option here, and I'm going to file an issue against all three UIs, and damn it nextjs sucks and I'm considering deprecating it for maintenance
- dreamrealthere are actually FIVE UIs, but two of them are BADLY outdated because I don't give a single crap about them and they're not even deployed live
- bluethis is *rather* easy to in primate. create a route as thus described above. then: const `[protocol, server, channel] = request.path.toJSON();`
- bluesorry, the opening backtick should be been before the const
- blueshould have been*
- bluedreamreal: https://libera.chat/policies/#public-logging
- nevetNetwork policies
- bluejust fyi; I will make sure this is properly advertised in the topics of #primate and #repopack; you take care of your flock
- bluejust so we're transparent about it, the public logging by nevet for this channel is authorised by me (channel owner) until indicated otherwise
- dreamrealI'm working on the issue, have a few other things in the queue
- blueno worries
- blueI'll change the topic as soon as you're up with the prettified url
- blue... or with the non-prettified one if you decide elsewise
- dreamrealI'm working on it, issue has been filed and shouldn't be long
- blue+1
- dreamrealdang it you casually created six issues for streampack :D
- blueyes well, you're carrying too many frontends :P
- dreamrealOnly two issues are in the front ends, nextjs gets ignored for this one
- bluewhat are the other four?
- dreamrealbut this is WHY I wanted multiple front ends, to get the backend API solid
- dreamrealnextjs [deployed, deprecated], primate [deployed and is the 'main site'], spring [pudl, deployed and is sort of the 'admin site'], spring (basic) [undeployed, unmaintained, was the proof for the design as a balance against...], reference (nextjs) [undeployed, was the 'site' before the nextjs 'main site' was built]
- bluebtw dreamreal, I feel like both things can be true at the same time. repopack exposes an API (for `rp`), *and* it has a very fast direct path for the ui. there is an inherent sync problem that arises from this, but the dividends for the direct path, eliminating the costliness of API requests, and enabling a direct db access essentially, is huge
- dreamreal*nod*
- blueI'm not saying you *need* to go there, it's your decision. but a two-path'd approach can pay out
- blueyour design*
- blueof course, the fact the backend is written in kotlin makes it very hard for you to port it to primate. hence I was thinking about a @primate/kotlin wasm bridge
- dreamrealI'm not sure what you mean: streampack DOES have a direct API. You mean such that UIs have access to the data directly?
- blueessentially yes. on repopack.com, the first load is always *one* request; on bytecode.news too, by masked by another fetch request in the background, to the api
- bluebut masked*
- dreamrealAh, no
- dreamrealI totally understand and it WOULD make everything faster
- dreamrealNO ARGUMENT THERE at all
- bluebut it would break your API design, I get it
- dreamrealbut the intent was NEVER actually for me to maintain UIs that didn't directly interest me
- blueya
- dreamreallike, I can see me being directly invested in the pudl UI, but honestly, I'd far rather SOMEONE ELSE maintain the primate API because it's not my strength area
- dreamrealand that means trusting users to not be damn fools
- dreamreallike, there ARE secrets in the database: they're encoded and you could capture the database without having secrets exposed, BUT someone could THEORETICALLY spend a lot of computing power on those secrets
- bluethe question here is a matter of coupling. you have a very loose coupling at the moment, but it comes at some price. I am thinking if you can keep it decoupled to your heart's content, and still get the benefits of traditional stronger coupling
- dreamrealblue: right, but that comes with TRUST. I could do that with pudl, as the interested maintainer. But not with the other UIs.
- dreamrealRight now interactions are pretty fast, and having a common API gives me not only viability tests for the API but common reference points
- bluehow so? trust that the server implementation isn't compromised, you mean?
- dreamrealTo be clear: you're wrong exactly 0%
- dreamrealno, trust in the maintainers of the UIs
- bluebut *you* are the maintainer
- dreamrealright now there is no trust, and there's no need for it: the UIs can't even pretend to have write access because there is no access
- dreamrealright
- dreamreal... of pudl
- dreamrealand technically primate as well
- dreamrealbut I really, really want BCN to have enough critical mass to break that pattern
- blueanyway, there are other challenges as well. I'm not sure how much kotlin wasm is ahead, and there are also to my knowledge some limitations with wasm java
- bluebut I must confess I have been eager to try out java wasm since java 25
- dreamrealwait until the next major release comes out
- dreamrealthe java LTS releases are quite something, compared to the history
- bluebut 25 is LT
- blueLTS, no?
- bluesupported until 2033
- bluethe next lts seems to be 29, sept 2027, that's some ways off
- dreamrealyes, but the next LTS is gonna *rock*
- dreamrealI'm staying on 25 until the next LTS but they keep adding features the community's been wanting and needing since, like, 2006
- bluethere's also the question of whether it makes sense to do a @primate/java or a @primate/kotlin first
- * dreamreal has no recommendation there, not enough experience with WASM in the field
- blueya
- dreamrealblue: backend is being merged for release now
- bluedreamreal: nice!
- dreamrealand now it's being set for deployment
- dreamrealprimate update following, but it needs backend deployment because the API is changing
- bluewith the latest primate updates?
- blueah ok
- dreamrealand yes, it's going to have the latest primate updates
- dreamrealalthough I'm not migrating the *code* very much
- bluethere's no code changes in 0.42.1 to be done
- blueshould be 100% transparent
- dreamreal*nod* just being clear, because I'm not using the route groups, etc
- blueI know
- bluethe route groups have got some stability fixes
- bluebut they're still opt-in, and will remain so
- bluedreamreal: https://repopack.com/project/primate/tasks/153
- nevetRepopack · Sign in
- dreamreal+1
- dreamrealGrrrr, trying to get some tuning issues resolved, HOLD ON. One step at a time. The backend deployment needs to work before we progress.
- bluethere's an asset chunking bug, though it's not surfaced on bytecode.news
- dreamreal*nod* Sorry for the join spam, the AI model interaction changed :/
- dreamrealit's rejecting "thinking" because I'm not turning it off properly yet
- dreamrealgolly, it's WORKING now but still not right
- dreamrealgrrrr
- dreamrealOkay, the new AI stuff works, and the openapi endpoints have been cleaned up. Now the primate and pudl updates for the logger entrypoint.
- phalethI thought pudl is just a design lang
- dreamrealit's an implementation as well, and in THIS context, it's a UI that uses pudl
- dreamrealit's also the most pessimistic consumer of the openapi spec, which is why it's a gate
- phalethok, I never understood the openapi spec, all I know is that primate has https://openapi.primate.run/manifest.json
- phaleththis UI that uses pudl uses pudl at build time I hope
- phalethright?
- dreamrealerr... no, no
- dreamrealthe bytecode API that uses openapi is talking to api.bytecode.news
- phalethoh, there is a SwaggerUI, and I was just like curious if you have SwaggerUI and you really do
- dreamrealI do, yes
- phalethwell, anyway, openapi is like I read odata and microsoft and I'm like "nah, I've had enough of that"
- dreamrealit's a drag, yes, but it's probably the best drag available
- phalethI also think that odata is one of the good things that microsoft has done, but still
- phalethbunx is used to run proby in the primate monorepo, that means it's still vendor locked in
- dreamrealblue: zeroing in, found a gap in pudl's endpoints
- dreamrealbackend is stable, so closing the gap and then fixing primate
- dreamrealAND THEN https://bytecode.news/logs/irc/libera/primate should work
- bluevery very good
- bluewe have a @primare/core patch coming up
- dreamrealwhen and for which? The migration thing?
- blueno, a 0.40 thing
- dreamrealanything that would affect BCN's deployment?
- blueno
- bluejust optimising network request size
- bluetrimming fat
- dreamrealok
- dreamrealblue: https://bytecode.news/logs/irc/libera/primate
- nevet#primate, October 7, 2026
- blueawesome
- dreamrealand thank you for the suggestion
- phalethdreamreal: the pudl frontend also feels kinda lightweight, which is nice
- dreamrealboth it and primate are pretty zippy
- phalethyup
- dreamrealpudl just uses an application paradigm, which isn't what most users would want or need
- dreamrealand then contrast it to nextjs.bytecode.news
- dreamrealwhich isn't sluggish but is *by comparison*
- phalethyeah, these windows are kinda odd on a website
- bluedreamreal: you are welcome
- dreamrealphaleth: for *writing* it's fantastic, I use the pudl endpoint for all admin access, AND it gives you a console :D
- phalethblue: optimizing network request size?
- blueyes, removing the names of chunks from json transfer objects
- phalethdreamreal: cool, I like CLIs
- phalethblue: nice, every byte counts
- dreamrealphaleth: see discord, #offtopic
- phalethdiscord? I'll pass
- dreamrealscreenshots, tho!
- phalethheh
- dreamrealI could paste one here but, um
- dreamrealsrsly, check it! Just this once!
- phalethmaybe later
- dreamrealit's the impressive! ... dang it
- dreamrealblue: do you see it? Are you not entertained?!?!
- bluesee what
- dreamrealI guess I could use an image pastebin, but I don't know of any
- dreamrealblue: discord, primate, #offtopic
- blueah, I saw now, yes
- dreamrealWhen I write on the pudl api, NOT ONLY does it have a "suggest tags" and "update tags" feature in the editor, but I can also just crank up a console and type into it just like I would here
- dreamrealcalc 42*pi
- nevetThe result of 42*pi is: 131.94689145077132
- dreamrealopenapi
- nevetopenapi is a vendor-neutral, machine-readable spec for HTTP APIs (formerly Swagger): describe the paths and schemas once, generate clients, servers and docs from it. URLs: https://www.openapis.org and https://spec.openapis.org/oas/latest.html
- dreamreal(this output is in the screenshot phaleth so CALLOUSLY refuses to see)
- dreamrealcalendar hebrew
- dreamrealcaloh
- dreamrealtoday hebrew
- nevetToday is Wednesday, 26 Tishrei, 5787 (Hebrew)
- dreamrealtoday
- nevetToday is Wednesday, October 7, 2026
- dreamrealI'm going to eventually move the factoid suggestion stuff into primate too but it's admin-only, as most of the AI stuff is gated to admins
- dreamreal(one aspect of the factoid derivation is heuristic, not AI, but the most useful features leverage AI)
- dreamrealI am, BTW, adding a filter for the backend such that it has patterns in URLs to ignore, so I can add "repopack.com/project" and have it not echo those url titles
- bluethat's AWESOME
- blue(however, there is the intention to make some semblance of public projects on repopack.com; although as phaleth noted, we will be limiting the ability of bots to get the entire js bundle from that, and that's a task for primate to solve)
- dreamrealWell, the thing is, the intent is to say "ignore urls that match THIS PATTERN" - not just a string, but a pattern - and also ignore urls that have text like "log in" or "sign in"
- blueya
- bluephaleth: I've deleted most of my stuff on github, and it'll be moving to repopack soon
- bluein particular scld and others I'm going to start creating projects for
- blueprimate is going to stay for a while, rcompat will move over completely soon (I already closed most issues). rcompat will be archived and eventually deleted
- blueI'm gonna commit fully, I don't see a way forward if I don't
- phalethok, it's up to you, let me know when I should get rid of gitea
- dreamreal*nod*
- bluesoon
- phalethalso make sure the UUIDv7s are in the db before anything
- bluewe're not going to GA any time close, uuidv7s will be in before that
- bluebut they might need to land in primate first
- blueI mean, they already are in primate. I'm just not sure the translation in @primate/postgresql is
- phalethyeah, makes sense
- dreamrealblue: check discord, it is to amuse
- dreamrealI'm still giggling
- dreamreallike, "holy cow, are you ... what... what's wrong with you"
- dreamrealI know giggling isn't manly but... come on!
- blueyes
- dreamrealand that fool knows the history and visibility
- dreamrealand apparently hasn't actually thought "gee, when someone says something they MAY ACTUALLY mean it"
- bluetrue
- dreamrealIt's back! and I'm adding log moderation capabilities to the UIs now
- blueAwesome sauce.
- blueYou're on FIRE on nevet today, dreamreal!
- dreamrealblue: can you join #nevet so I can intentionally abuse you and trigger the reports?
- dreamrealjreicher: found the problem for openliberty BTW
- dreamrealjreicher: https://github.com/OpenLiberty/openliberty.io/issues/4367
- nevetAtom feed republishes the ArgoCD drift post with a new id on every site build · Issue #4367 · OpenLiberty/openliberty.io
- jreicherAnd there was indeed a problem?
- jreicherAhah.
- dreamrealjreicher: there was, but it wasn't nevet!