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Sunday, October 11, 2026 (America/New_York)

  1. * jreicher quit (Quit: In transit)
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  8. * dreamreal quit (*.net *.split)
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  11. jreicherblue: nah, I don't have privacy concerns at all. It's more a matter of time and respect. I don't want to disrespect your work by giving you the impression I'll spend more time looking at it than I actually can. But part of that is deciding how much time I have, which is a constant challenge for me.
  12. jreicherhangman
  13. nevetHangman: _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ (6/6 lives) -- Use 'hangman <letter>' to guess, 'hangman solve <word>' to solve.
  14. jreicherhangman e
  15. nevetHangman: _ _ _ _ _ e _ _ (6/6 lives, guessed: e) -- 'e' is in the word!
  16. jreicherhangman t
  17. nevetHangman: _ _ t _ _ e _ _ (6/6 lives, guessed: e, t) -- 't' is in the word!
  18. jreicherhangman n
  19. nevetHangman: _ _ t _ _ e _ _ (5/6 lives, guessed: e, n, t) -- No 'n'. 5 lives left.
  20. jreicherhangman a
  21. nevetHangman: _ _ t _ _ e _ _ (4/6 lives, guessed: a, e, n, t) -- No 'a'. 4 lives left.
  22. jreicherhangman u
  23. nevetHangman: _ u t _ _ e _ _ (4/6 lives, guessed: a, e, n, t, u) -- 'u' is in the word!
  24. jreicherhangman y
  25. nevetHangman: _ u t _ _ e _ _ (3/6 lives, guessed: a, e, n, t, u, y) -- No 'y'. 3 lives left.
  26. jreicherhangman s
  27. nevetHangman: _ u t _ _ e _ _ (2/6 lives, guessed: a, e, n, s, t, u, y) -- No 's'. 2 lives left.
  28. phalethjreicher: everybody in this channel is exactly in the same situation, that's why people are clankering heavily these days, it does not take long to try repopack website and also the cli. If you don't feel like contributing to repopack specifically you can always leave feedback in the pop up window on the website
  29. phalethand by contributing I mean just writing tasks for clanker to do
  30. jreicheri
  31. jreicherhangman i
  32. nevetHangman: _ u t _ i e _ _ (2/6 lives, guessed: a, e, i, n, s, t, u, y) -- 'i' is in the word!
  33. jreicherWow, this is hard
  34. jreicherOh
  35. jreicherhangman o
  36. nevetHangman: o u t _ i e _ _ (2/6 lives, guessed: a, e, i, n, o, s, t, u, y) -- 'o' is in the word!
  37. jreicherhangman f
  38. nevetHangman: o u t f i e _ _ (2/6 lives, guessed: a, e, f, i, n, o, s, t, u, y) -- 'f' is in the word!
  39. jreicherhangman l
  40. nevetHangman: o u t f i e l _ (2/6 lives, guessed: a, e, f, i, l, n, o, s, t, u, y) -- 'l' is in the word!
  41. jreicherhangman d
  42. nevetjreicher got it! The word was 'outfield'. Use 'hangman' to play again.
  43. * phaleth quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  44. * phaleth joined #primate
  45. * jreicher quit (Quit: In transit)
  46. * jreicher joined #primate
  47. bluephaleth: true, also hi
  48. phalethhi blue
  49. blue570 will soon be fixed
  50. bluephaleth: https://repopack.com/project/repopack/jobs/1
  51. bluedid you see job runs are now paginated
  52. bluebut 20 is too much. I'll reduce it to 10
  53. blueugh, too much open stuff :)
  54. blueI'm excited about 0.43
  55. bluefinally, full pema docs
  56. bluebeen long time in the making
  57. bluehttps://repopack.com/project/primate/tasks/194
  58. blue0.43 is already growing way beyond what I'd intended
  59. bluebut it's all good, that's what you have releases for
  60. blueI'm not going to lie, I like the npm 0.* model too much
  61. bluedreamrea1: I should really submit an article to bytecode.news, "Major 1 is overrated"
  62. bluedreamrea1: fix your nick
  63. * dreamrea1 is now known as dreamreal
  64. dreamrealwhat would "major 1 is overrated" be about? (remember, you can build an article from IRC conversations with nevet.)
  65. bluedreamreal: it's an idea I've expressed time an again. that majors, particularly major 1, are *mostly* pr, but they limit you in breaking properly and moving forward. In a way, this is the linux development model: it *has* no stable version that carries backcompat for years
  66. dreamrealSure, but this is known
  67. bluefor primate, I'm perfectly comfortable in staying on 0.* for quasi-forever, unless someone can convince me elsewise
  68. blueI do not know what I'll gain by publishing a 1.*
  69. blueother than claiming some sort of stability / ripeness to which I don't think I as the creator have a real claim to
  70. dreamrealWell, fair. But psychologically, a 0.x release doesn't feel like it's "baked." It's a promise that says "this works" that 0.x does not make, even though 0.x can certainly work just as well.
  71. blueyes; and my point is that a "show not tell" situation like esbuild's, is far superior to a bun 1.* that is broken
  72. dreamrealbut users aren't going to LOOK at the "show don't tell" version. Their first gate is the release version.
  73. dreamrealNote: am not telling you "do not write this."
  74. bluethat's totally fine, I don't need to write it, we can steelman it first here
  75. blueif this is a triviality, then you spare me time by showing iti s
  76. dreamrealweather 27596
  77. nevetThe weather for 27596, Franklin County, North Carolina, United States is 23.43C (74.2F), and is described as "overcast clouds"
  78. bluebut I still maintain that major 1 is a derivative form of snake oil
  79. dreamrealhrmph, there's apparently a tornado warning here, AWS!
  80. blueit's a trust me bro situation
  81. bluelol
  82. dreamrealsure, it's easy to say "hrm, we want users, let's brand it 1.0 and goooooo and we'll fix all the user stuff as soon as they whinge"
  83. bluedreamreal: kudos on setting CELCIUS as the standard there and not freedom units
  84. blueyes
  85. * nevet joined #primate
  86. * blue!~blue@user/blue changed the topic to: https://primate.run | this channel is publicly logged at https://bytecode.news/logs/irc/libera/primate and mirrored to Primate discord, channel #irc
  87. bluebut you do not lay claim to major 1 being more than a trust-me-bro, yes?
  88. phalethhttps://0ver.org/
  89. nevetZeroVer: 0-based Versioning — zer0ver
  90. dreamrealI'm not making a claim anyway. Users are valuable; the things that help users decide are valuable by extension; some users value 1.x and others don't care, and both sets of users have reasons.
  91. dreamrealwindows 0.8 would NEVER have taken off, even if it were byte-for-byte equivalent to 1.0.
  92. dreamrealhmm, I'm now thinking 0ver would have been a net positive for windows :D
  93. bluephaleth: DAMN, there's already a concept for this
  94. blueso I don't need to write an article after all
  95. dreamrealWell, it's worth churning the stream for, if you're passionate about it
  96. dreamrealthe fact that it's significant to YOU is significant, after all. Consider the idea on 0ver as being, well, 1.x
  97. bluehm
  98. blue"Unlike other versioning schemes like Semantic Versioning and Calendar Versioning, ZeroVer (AKA 0ver) is simple: Your software's major version should never exceed the first and most important number in computing: zero."
  99. blueI must say I disagree with this. this is NOT the extend of what *I* am thinking
  100. dreamrealSee? You could write 2.x!
  101. bluelol
  102. * dreamreal is definitely amused by this
  103. blueyou're not taking me seriously
  104. dreamrealNo, I definitely am - the humor is well-intentioned
  105. blueit's just in a 0.x.y scheme, x+1 should indicate breakage, whilst y+1 shouldn't
  106. bluethe major is USELESS
  107. bluein fact it's an anti-feature: it communicates a false sense of stability
  108. dreamrealeh, not really: semver says that patches don't affect behavior while minors do and majors are incompatibility
  109. blueI didn't say semver, dreamreal
  110. * phaleth quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
  111. blueI said what my ideal is. incidentally, this ideal is exactly how npm interprets 0.* software
  112. dreamrealand I'd say 1.x says "this behavior is contractually there, we guarantee that the 1.x spec is valid," and .x patches are "we're fixing the contractual fulfillment" and .y says "you probably won't notice this but we will"
  113. * phaleth joined #primate
  114. dreamrealyes, npm is clearly what we should be emulating
  115. bluenpm will auto pull-in a y-change on 0.x.y, but it won't be pulling in an x change
  116. blueoh gott, more deprecating humour!
  117. blueI can see you are amusing yourself well
  118. bluegood good
  119. dreamrealwhere?
  120. blue16:44 < dreamreal> yes, npm is clearly what we should be emulating
  121. blueif this isn't tongue-in-check, I'm a hare
  122. bluecheek*
  123. dreamrealpffft, that's humor at npm's expense, I'm not being self-deprecating at all
  124. dreamrealnpm is just software, if you like it, great, but it's just a set of decisions
  125. blueI don't care for npm one least bit
  126. dreamrealI'm working on an article myself, trying to figure out if I should bother putting it out monday which is a federal holiday here
  127. dreamrealAND working on the annotation mechanism for BCN
  128. blueya
  129. dreamreal```This is why authors are often their own terrible reviewers: an author *knows* what they meant and they naturally elide errors themselves, and they don't even *see* their own errers. A good copy editor who's able to be brutally honest while interested in the success of a project is worth their own weight in gold. Software authors have it even worse, since most of us aren't authors *at all* and
  130. dreamrealwriting is not our strength or interest in the first place.```
  131. dreamrealand no, I'm not leaving "errers" in even though I worked HARD to type it - dang that was not easy - because it's just ... too easy for a reader to go "hey, you made an error" without realizing that I was illustrating a point.
  132. blueyes
  133. * phaleth quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  134. * phaleth joined #primate
  135. blueWB phaleth
  136. phalethheh
  137. bluephaleth: if we move to flog as part of 0.43, I could also close primate#186
  138. phalethyeah
  139. bluephaleth: https://primate-master.repopack.app/docs/pema
  140. phalethpema
  141. * phaleth is drinking lemonade atm
  142. bluelemonade is great
  143. bluephaleth: primate's web-master app now automatically redeploys on master advances
  144. bluethis is amaze sauce for many different reasons; but above all, we now officially eclipse what we wanted to get out of fly
  145. blueand it takes roughly ~10s to redeploy, as opposed to the >30s on fly
  146. bluephaleth: https://primate-master.repopack.app/docs/pema/schemas
  147. nevetPrimate — Schemas
  148. bluenow works on mobile well, too
  149. bluehttps://primate-master.repopack.app/blog/primate-043
  150. nevetPrimate — Primate 0.43: diamond migrations, deferred navigation and direct SQL
  151. phalethhuh, the blogpost is merged by there are XXXs in it still
  152. blueyes, merged into master
  153. blueit's not online yet on primate.run, nor is 0.43 released
  154. phalethyeah, I can see that
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  158. blueman will I be happy getting rid of nub/pnpm
  159. * phaleth quit (Quit: phaleth)
  160. bluedreamreal: https://flog.run
  161. nevetflog — predictable JavaScript package management
  162. * jreicher quit (Quit: In transit)
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  164. jreicherzero-versioning reminds me of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_versioning#TeX
  165. nevetSoftware versioning - Wikipedia
  166. jreicher(note that's a link to a specific section)
  167. * nevet joined #primate
  168. * blue!~blue@user/blue changed the topic to: https://primate.run | this channel is publicly logged at https://bytecode.news/logs/irc/libera/primate and mirrored to Primate discord, channel #irc
  169. dreamrealblue: nevet now has CVE support. :D